Mr. WHITTINGTON. If the gates were installed, do I understand you to say they would be installed so that they might operate at a gage of less than 51 feet?

General MARKHAM. We could operate them at any time we pleased in the circumstances, with a gate structure.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. When you say "the gate structure" you mean it might be operated from the bank, full stage or not?

General MARKHAM. Yes; it could take water out at bank-full stage. But even with the gates, the law could prevent us from actually operating the gates until the river had risen to a height corresponding to 51 feet on the Vicksburg gage. We could take out water at greater depth, and with lesser width of structure than would be practicable with a fixed weir. But we could take water out only above 51 feet, if you put in a rock-filled structure with its crest at that height.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Assuming that gates were installed instead of using the rock-filled method, and they were opened, would the opening of those gates provide for a discharge before 51 feet was reached? General MARKHAM. No; that is not contemplated but it might be authorized in the law.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. I am not clear what you mean by saying that the bank full might be operated with the gates.

General MARKHAM. Once we begin operations at or above 51 feet, then we could let water out with greater head or depth, than would be possible with the rock-filled weir at 51 feet.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. That would mean when you opened the gate it would be under 51?

General MARKHAM. If we had the gates we would not expect that water would flow down the floodway until the river had risen above 51 feet and we could shut it off whenever it was safe.

The CHAIRMAN. In the survey of the valley and the probable conditions that might prevail at that time, you might not use it even at 56 feet in Vicksburg.

General MARKHAM. That is correct.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Is the rock-filled intake or the gate intake one continuous structure, or is it made up of two or three segments, there at the head of the Eudora floodway? It is one continuous structure in the event you use gates?

General MARKHAM. It could be several structures or one continuous structure.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Would you have that in the event of putting in more than one?

General MARKHAM. We would have the privilege of doing whatever we concluded finally to be the best type of engineering structure. Mr. WHITTINGTON. Within what limit would be the width of the intake along the river?

General MARKHAM. They tell me that the rock-fill weir that would flood at 51-feet height would be about 30,000 feet long. Mr. WHITTINGTON. About 30,000 feet. In addition to that, what else do you propose to do in order to accommodate the waters that come from the upper Mississippi and the Arkansas and the White? As you know, there has always been a great problem, especially in the green bank bends into the outlet. What else do you propose to do to accommodate those waters?

General MARKHAM. The Greenville bends are now being cut. There is one cut at Leland, and we are preparing to cut the next bend, and also the third. Thus we would shorten the river which is now flowing here [indicating on map] and carry it down here [indicating on map], thus eliminating the greater length and path of the water, and thereby passing a greater volume at the same height.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Let us see. In addition to those which are going along without modification

General MARKHAM. They are going along now.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. That is under existing law. I am speaking of actual modifications. In addition to the Eudora floodway you provide for a set-back levee from approximately the head of the Eudora floodway to a point along the south bank of the Arkansas River.

General MARKHAM. We provide for a levee roughly indicated by that line [indicating on map], to join with the Arkansas River levee, on the theory that sufficient length of the fuseplug leveeabout 3 feet lower than adjacent levees-should remain in that area, but as the high water came we would first take out through the Eudora spillway the maximum that it would accommodate, and that would accommodate, as we intend to try to work it out, about 400,000 or 500,000 feet. We think, as time goes on, with the clearings and the improvements of drainage, that we would have authority to make in the floodway under the provisions of your bill, we might be able to take in the Eudora floodway from a million to a million one hundred thousand second-feet, if we needed to do that. The area east of the set-back levee north of Eudora would, according to our estimates, be used only after the artificial spillway near Eudora had been used to capacity. Therefore this area would be used only as a second step, and might never have to be used at all.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. How far back is the levee in the back area; how far is the back levee from the present levee in the fuseplug area?

General MARKHAM. It is at various distances. It is 45 miles down through here [indicating on map]. We believe, with a provision in the law permitting us to decide as to where that levee will go, we can provide sufficient cross section all through here [indicating on map].

Mr. WHITTINGTON. At what point will that back levee along the south bank of the Arkansas River be when completed?

General MARKHAM. What will be the point of the take-off?
Mr. WHITTINGTON. Yes.

General MARKHAM. A considerable distance above Arkansas City. I do not know exactly what the name of the locality may be.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. And your recommendation contemplates that that back levee shall not be constructed until after the Eudora spillway is completed?

General MARKHAM. Correct.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. What increased burdens, if any, will there be to the two main backwater areas in this southern section-and I mean the backwater areas of the Arkansas River, the White, on the west side of the river, and the Yazoo, on the east side of the riverin event the modifications are made as you recommend, with the dis

cretionary power and authority, both as to the type of the construction of intake and when it shall be operated?

General MARKHAM. What additional burdens?

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Yes, sir.

General MARKHAM. There will not be any. There should be a great reduction of burdens. In other words, we will get rid of backwater faster.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. In what way? What backwater do you mean? General MARKHAM. The Arkansas.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. I am thinking about the Yazoo particularly. General MARKHAM. I think that your backwater will be substantially reduced, by reason of the fact that we will have water passing down here [indicating on map] at substantially less heights than would otherwise be the case.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. At the present time the fuseplug operates at approximately 602, and you stated that that was a gage corresponding with 56 at Vicksburg.

General MARKHAM. That is correct, I think.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Now, what would be the gage at Arkansas City with a 56-foot gage at the spillway or 56 feet at Vicksburg? What would be the corresponding gage?

General MARKHAM. Major Oliver figures that at between 58 and 59 feet.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Where?

General MARKHAM. Arkansas City. Fifty-six feet at Vicksburg corresponds to 58 or 59 feet at Arkansas City, according to Major .Oliver.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. If you go to 56 feet at Eudora, that would be an estimated gage of 58 or 59 feet at Arkansas City. Would that not be higher than any gage that we have ever had, save 1927? General MARKHAM. I think that is correct.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Is not that true?

General MARKHAM. Major Oliver tells me it is about the same as 1929.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Let us take 1929 and see if my recollection is correct. The flood of 1929 was the highest gage at Vicksburg and at Arkansas City that was ever known in the lower valley, save 1927?

General MARKHAM. I would have to ask about that. I do not 'know.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Have you gentlemen the figures?
General FERGUSON. I think that that is correct.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. It was higher than it was in 1922, was it not?
General MARKHAM. I cannot find that now.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. I will ask you to verify it. I have the advantage of you, because I have some figures here.

The highest backwater, save in the 1927 flood, in both the backwater area of the Arkansas and of the Yazoo, was the 1929 flood. I have these figures, and I call for you to verify and correct them, because they go to a vital matter in that middle section.

The gage in the 1922 flood at Arkansas City, in April 1922, was 58 feet. That gage at Vicksburg was 55 feet.

You can see, therefore, that the people in those backwater areasand you hear a lot about the backwater area people, and you know

their troubles, which we are trying to take care of-are to a greater extent disturbed if the gage height at Arkansas City and at Vicksburg, with a 56-foot diversion, is maintained, because it means more backwater in both of those areas.

That was for 1922. Now, in 1929, the hightest of the backwaters at both areas, theoretically anyway, was a gage of 58.8 feet at Arkansas City and 58.1 feet at Vicksburg, and that was an awful backwater.

Now, General what bothers me is if we might not make that intake until you reach 56 or 57 feet for those backwater areas.

General MARKHAM. Let me make a correction. I was just talking these figures out of my head. As a general statement, if we had a gated structure we would operate to the advantage of everybody, including the backwater people.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. The whole purpose of any internal improvement, and of the improvement of the lower Mississippi River, is to bring the greatest good to the greatest number? General MARKHAM. Absolutely.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. As you stated, it is your plan that in connection with this discretion-and I can see the occasion and the reason for it, with the progress that is being made in cut-offs-there shall be added no burden either to a backwater area along the Yazoo or the Arkansas in this middle section?

General MARKHAM. That is absolutely correct, and I am glad that you developed that, because I was talking figures out of my head. Mr. WHITTINGTON. I had some folks ask me to develop it. I have some constituents here.

But you have that power, and you have that discretion.

General, does this recommendation for the modification provide that the Chief of Engineers shall have absolute control and absolute authority in the operation of the Eudora floodway, and that the title to that floodway is in the Government?

General MARKHAM. He would have control, and he would have the right of flowage after he had paid for it, under the terms of what will be the easements.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. That is your recommendation?

General MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. It will not be to Cairo, or Mississippi, or Arkansas, or Louisiana?

General MARKHAM. Not the least in the world.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Because otherwise it would be utterly ineffective, and the Government expenditures down there would be in vain. General MARKHAM. We could put in, with the authority granted by that bill, a gated structure, and then deal in the interests of the whole, without fear or favor, which is our method of doing business, or we would put in a rock spillway that would operate at or above say 51, and cease to operate below 51.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. And your recommendations provide that those landowners and the people in the Eudora floodway area shall be compensated for the damages that they sustain, and for the injury to their property, as provided in your recommendation?

General MARKHAM. For the speculative risk to which they would be subjected by water going down on them from a spillway of our creation.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. What is your estimate as to how often that water would go through that floodway?

General MARKHAM. We think it might be once in 15 to 25 years.. Mr. WHITTINGTON. Now, General

General MARKHAM. We prefer to be conservative, and to say once in every 15 years.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. A little bit less frequently than would obtain Un the fuse plug?

General MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. And that is a 12-year proposition?

General MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. What, if anything, do you contemplate doing in the fuse plug area of 35 miles after the Eudora floodway has been constructed and after the back levee which would be to the same height of all the other Mississippi River levees had been constructed? General MARKHAM. We contemplate retaining the fuseplug levee at the 1914 grade, but with the authority to ring in particular properties, we could ring such properties in if they wanted to be ringed in. Mr. WHITTINGTON. And that ring will be higher than the fuseplug area?

General MARKHAM. Yes, sir. It would be the same height as your levee on the east.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Would you do anything to that fuseplug area? Would you put in gravel, or concrete, or anything along that top? General MARKHAM. We would do nothing with the fuseplug, except leave it just as is. This would mean, in the event of a crevasse, the possibility of destruction of some land by sand, gravel, or what have you. As to ring levees in that area that would be a matter of cooperation with the landowners.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Let me see if I gather what you mean by the sand structure. Is that on top of the fuseplug area?

General MARKHAM. If we retained the fuseplug, and it crevassed,. we would expect to repair the crevasse.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. And in that stretch of 4 miles of fuseplug area, you might put up behind the levee, or along the top of the levee, this sand and gravel construction that you speak of?

General MARKHAM. We do nothing except to retain that as an ordinary levee at the 1914 grade.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. In other words, you do nothing at all except to maintain it to the 1914 grade?

General MARKHAM. That is correct.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. And in event of a crevasse, you would use this material in this 4-mile area?

General MARKHAM. We would desire to do justice to people who might be disarranged by the sand and gravel and the customary consequences of a crevasse.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. How much higher than 56 feet could you go at that head of the Eudora floodway in the authority that might be given the Chief of Engineers under this modification? General MARKHAM. How much higher?

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Yes, sir; higher than that 56 feet.

General MARKHAM. I think, as I recall it, with that 1914 gradeand with the Eudora floodway in operation, and under the presumption of the consequences of the cut-offs that are progressing,