has to do primarily with human welfare, and is not concerned with the atomic secrets in any way.

LOYALTY OF STUDENT FRIESTADT QUESTIONED

Senator FERGUSON. Do the professors know of the question of his loyalty?

Dr. WARREN. They are aware of that, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. I mean, have you told them that?

Dr. WARREN. Yes.

Senator BRIDGES. Are you in favor of educating a man at the expense of the United States when he is disloyal to our country?

Dr. WARREN. I would say that, if this man is a Communist, he ought not to continue to receive the benefit of this fellowship. But it will be a real sacrifice, perhaps, from the standpoint of scientific information. However, I feel that there are other conditions than that which would weigh in this case.

Senator FERGUSON. Why did you not find out 10 months ago whether or not he was a Communist, before you kept this thing going on and on? Now you come to the conclusion that he should not be educated at Government expense if he is a Communist, when you had information leading you to that conclusion 10 months ago. Dr. WARREN. Leading us to the conclusion that he was either a Communist sympathizer or had association with Communists.

Senator FERGUSON. Why did you not discover then whether you felt that he should be continued? Or has it come up right now that you have made a new decision because of public opinion? Is that the test?

DETERMINATION OF LOYALTY IN UNCLASSIFIED FIELD

Dr. WARREN. No; I think that the question lies here: that we had initially no way of determining, in the unclassified field, whether or not a man was or was not a Communist.

Senator FERGUSON. Well, you knew section 102 was in the act, did you not?

Dr. WARREN. Yes, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. And I have come to the conclusion that the chairman has; that a stipend here is a salary. It is not required that he use it for any particular thing. It is a salary to keep him going, something that he may live on, just the same as a man who works for the Atomic Energy Commission earns a salary to live. The way it is classified in this letter and contract, it is a gift; but it is a stipend, which is really in effect a salary.

LOYALTY CHECK DIRECTED ONLY TO RESTRICTED FIELD

Senator O'MAHONEY. It is true, of course and I cannot understand why the Commission was misled-that the General Accounting Office and the Bureau of Internal Revenue have held that employees of a contractor are not employees of the Commission, although their salaries and wages are paid from the funds of the Commission. But what has happened here, if I may say just this, is that the attention was directed to this matter by the publicity which attended the statement of Senator Hoey on the floor of the Senate and the response

of Chairman Lilienthal to that. And it has now developed that heretofore the security investigations of the Atomic Energy Commission have been directed only to those employees and officers who were engaged on work in contact with restricted data. You had not, probably, thought of the application of section 102. Now you are ready to accept 102 not only in its present form, but in a rigorously amended form that will, to the best of our ability, close the door to the education of Communists.

Do I not understand that to be your position, Chairman Lilienthal? Commissioner LILIENTHAL. Yes; that is the position.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Is that not your opinion, Dr. Bronk?

Dr. BRONK (Douglas W. Bronk, Chairman, National Research Council). Yes, sir.

Senator O'MAHONEY. And you, Dr. Warren, agree to it?

Dr. WARREN. Yes, sir.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Now, this list of fellows that you have presented to the committee contains the names of a large number of persons. An examination would indicate that none of them was appointed before July 1, 1948. Am I right?

Senator WHERRY. May I ask a question about these appointees? Senator O'MAHONEY. Will the Senator be good enough to indulge the chairman?

Senator WHERRY. I have been pretty good. I only finished one question all morning.

Senator O'MAHONEY. You will certainly be permitted to ask it. Would you be good enough to answer the question, sir?

LOYALTY CHECK IN UNRESTRICTED FIELD PROPOSED

Dr. WARREN. Mr. Chairman, some of these individuals were appointed in the spring of 1948. There were none whose term of work started prior to July 1, 1948.

Senator O'MAHONEY. I want to ask this additional question: Are the Commission and the National Research Council now ready to cooperate with the committee in so framing this law that all of those who have been appointed to fellowships and who have not been required to submit to an investigation with respect to their membership in the Communist Party shall be so required before they receive any more public money?

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. That is, does the provision of section 102 apply at all?

Senator O'MAHONEY. Those who are now appointed as well as those who are still to be appointed.

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. That is correct, sir.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Dr. Bronk, what is your answer.

Dr. BRONK. National Research Council, sir, is always prepared to cooperate with the Government. That is our function.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Senator Wherry has been waiting to ask a question.

ISIDORE EDELMAN

Senator WHERRY. Before you answered that question, I wanted to ask you about an individual. I am interested in what the chairman has been testifying to here, as between the secret and nonsecret

fellowships, and whether or not this is going to be applicable to both of them.

Do you know a man by the name of Isidore Edelman?

Dr. WARREN. I am not personally acquainted with him. I know the kind of work in which he is engaged.

Senator WHERRY. In what kind of work is he engaged?

Dr. WARREN. He is engaged in work in the medical field, using an isotopic form of hydrogen in order to determine the state of fluid balance in the body under certain conditions of disease.

Senator WHERRY. When was he given his scholarship?

Dr. WARREN. It is my memory that his fellowship was given in either April or May of 1948. I could get the exact date for you, Senator.

EDELMAN DENIED JOB ON COMMISSION STAFF

Senator WHERRY. Now I want to ask you this question, Mr. Chairman. Was he refused a security job on the Atomic Energy Commission?

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. Yes; he was.

Senator WHERRY. Was he refused a job on the Atomic Energy Commission because of security reasons?

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. No; he was denied clearance by the Commission on security grounds.

Senator WHERRY. That is what I mean.

He was denied work. Commissioner LILIENTHAL. To work at classified project.

Senator WHERRY. All right. Now, why was he denied this? What is the evidence?

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. Because there was derogatory evidence. Senator WHERRY. Was he a Communist?

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. He was denied because of derogatory information.

EDELMAN DENIES BEING COMMUNIST

Senator WHERRY. I just asked whether he was a Communist. Commissioner LILIENTHAL. He denies that he is a Communist. Senator WHERRY. But the evidence was sufficient to deny the clearance on security grounds?

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. That is right. It raised so serious a question.

Senator WHERRY. And did you know that when you gave him the fellowship?

Dr. WARREN. I did not know it at the time he was given the fellowship.

Senator WHERRY. And that is because he is in this nonsecret branch. Is that correct, Mr. Chairman?

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. That completely. He applied for a fellowship at a point where, although it was in nonclassified work, there was contact with others who were in classified work. This, the National Research Council brought to our attention. He was then, on the recommendation of the National Research Council, the fellowship board, with which Dr. Warren agreed, transferred to a hospital, where there is no classified work going on.

Senator WHERRY. Do you think that this man should have been given a fellowship and granted a stipend, with the knowledge you had that he was turned down for a job in the Atomic Energy Commission on security grounds?

JUDGMENT OF RESEARCH COUNCIL ACCEPTED

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. Yes; I think the decision was one of accepting the judgment of the National Research Council and our director of medicine, Dr. Warren, that here was a man of such unusual talents, that to put him in a hospital where there was no secret work would be of advantage to the country, which would be greater than the disadvantage.

Senator WHERRY. Then you take the position that for scientific reasons, you yourself believe that from the standpoint of the aid to science we should continue to assist people by this means, even though we are taking a chance with them, as Communists, in connection with the security of this country. Is that correct?

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. That is not the position of the National Research Council now. It is not the position of the Commission now. Last summer, when this case came up, it was felt that in this case the balance was in the other direction.

Senator WHERRY. So you recommended him, did you not, for a fellowship?

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. No; I did not.

Senator WHERRY. Does not the evidence show that you insisted that he get a fellowship after he was turned down?

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. That is completely contrary to fact. Senator WHERRY. I am just asking you: What are the facts? Commissioner LILIENTHAL. The facts are, as has been stated by Dr. Warren, that this was an individual of whose identity I had no knowledge at all. And there are hundreds of these cases, which came to the Commission only because there was this special problem.

The National Security Council took the view that if his talents. were put into a hospital, it would be a desirable balance. I had no knowledge of this.

Senator WHERRY. That is the point I am making. He had no knowledge.

We will forget the charges. How would these people know about it if he was turned down by this Security Council? Is that passed on to the National Research Council Advisory Committee?

Dr. WARREN. Yes.

Senator WHERRY. It is?

Dr. WARREN. I personally went over to talk with

Senator WHERRY. This man?

Dr. WARREN. Not with this man, but I talked with the members of the National Research Council on this point.

Senator WHERRY. Did they talk with this man?

Dr. WARREN. I can't answer that, sir. I will ask Dr. Bronk.

Senator WHERRY. Doctor, did you talk with this man, Isidore Edelman?

Dr. BRONK. I never saw him, sir.

Senator WHERRY. You do not know anything about his clearance being denied in the Security Council?

Dr. BRONK. I did not know about it. It was handled by one of my fellowship boards.

FELLOWSHIP BOARD KNEW ABOUT EDELMAN

Senator FERGUSON. Did your fellowship man know about this from the Security Council?

Dr. BRONK. They did at a certain stage.

Senator WHERRY. When?

Dr. BRONK. After the fellowship had been awarded.

Senator WHERRY. When? How long ago?

Dr. BRONK. Probably some time last spring.

Senator FERGUSON. Then you had all the information at least last spring, a year ago; is that right?

Dr. BRONK. I presume they must have had.

Senator FERGUSON. Then you must have approved it. Is that correct?

Dr. BRONK. You mean approved

Senator FERGUSON. Continuation of the fellowship, under the circumstances where the man had not been cleared by the Atomic Energy Commission.

Dr. BRONK. Yes.

Senator FERGUSON. Surely. That is true. You cleared him too, Dr. Warren.

Dr. WARREN. If you mean "clear" in the sense of giving him

access

Senator FERGUSON. You approved it.

Dr. WARREN. I did.

Senator FERGUSON. And you accepted the recommendation, Mr. Chairman?

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. I accepted the recommendation.
Senator FERGUSON. So it was known to all parties.

EDELMAN SCHOLARSHIP REPORTED TO JOINT COMMITTEE

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. And we reported this to the joint committee.

Senator FERGUSON. You reported this to the joint congressional committee?

Senator WHERRY. When?

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. I think the letter is dated in October 1948; is it not?

Senator O'MAHONEY. Is this the letter of October 11, 1948, that you handed across the board?

Commissioner LILIENTHAL. May I make sure that this is the proper one?

Senator O'MAHONEY. This is a letter addressed to Senator Hickenlooper.

DIFFERENCE OF OPINION

Senator WHERRY. You just got through stating, Dr. Warren, that you felt loyalty was the supreme thing; that the education matter now was minor to the question of the security of the country. Have you reversed your opinion since last October?