Mr. HARPER. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Was any of that work done to Clinton River? The CHAIRMAN. What did it consist of? Mr. HARPER. Dredging. The CHAIRMAN. Dredging what? Mr. HARPER. Dredging parts of the Clinton River and the north branch and the middle branch. The CHAIRMAN. That was done by whom? Mr. HARPER. By the county and the people in the surrounding territory. The CHAIRMAN. And that has been effective? Mr. HARPER. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What is the type or the topography from Mount Clemens to the mouth with respect to aridity or cultivatability? Mr. HARPER. It is improved subdivisions. There is only 6 inches of fall from the city of Mount Clemens to the mouth of the river. The CHAIRMAN. People live along both sides of the river? Mr. HARPER. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any agriculture there? Mr. HARPER. Yes, sir, we have many farms, and market gardens. As I said before, it is a resort. They take full advantage of the river, boating, yachting, and such as that. The CHAIRMAN. The proposed cut-off, some 2 miles long, is through what type of country? Mr. HARPER. It is sparsely populated. In this particular area, to construct this proposed cut-off there, there will only be five homes taken out of that. The CHAIRMAN. Is the other land in cultivation? Mr. HARPER. It is not in cultivation at the present time. The CHAIRMAN. Through which that canal goes? Mr. HARPER. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. That is plain land because, as you say, it is substantially low flat land near the lake? Mr. HARPER. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Any questions by Mr. Allen? Mr. ALLEN. How much territory do you have in this level flat area below Clinton on down to the water? You said that was level land. How much acreage is embraced in that? Mr. HARPER. About 1,000 acres. Mr. ALLEN. Does it overflow? Mr. HARPER. Yes, sir. Mr. ALLEN. How often? Mr. HARPER. It has flooded three times in the past 5 years. Mr. ALLEN. And yet people live in there? Mr. HARPER. Yes, sir. From this point where the proposed cut-off canal is, which is 214 miles, there is sufficient fall through that particular section to develop 11,000 cubic feet a second. The CHAIRMAN. We have had that statement. Mr. ALLEN. That is all. The CHAIRMAN. Any other questions by members of the committee? If not, Mr. Retzlaff, do you desire to submit a statement? STATEMENT OF CHARLES A. RETZLAFF, CITY ATTORNEY OF EAST DETROIT AND THE CITY OF CENTER LINE AND THE TOWNSHIP OF WARREN Mr. RETZLAFF. I have a few words. The CHAIRMAN. Do you have a prepared statement? Mr. RETZLAFF. I have no prepared statement. The CHAIRMAN. Will you give us your official position, if any, and your business or profession? Mr. RETZLAFF. I am city attorney of East Detroit and city attorney for the city of Center Line and the township of Warren, through which the Red Run traverses. The CHAIRMAN. What is your residence? Mr. RETZLAFF. East Detroit, Mich. The CHAIRMAN. What interest do you represent or speak for? Mr. RETZLAFF. The township of Warren. I am also supervisor of the county, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Of Macomb County? Mr. RETZLAFF. That is right. The CHAIRMAN. What area are these proposed improvements along the Red Run in? Mr. RETZLAFF. That is in Oakland and in Macomb, The CHAIRMAN. Do you speak for those parties of the Red Run side in Macomb county or in both counties? Mr. RETZLAFF. Just in Warren township in Macomb County. The CHAIRMAN. Are there other townships in Warren County? Mr. RETZLAFF. The Red Run, as Mr. Harper, the drainage commissioner, has indicated, starts at Campbell Road and Twelve Mile Road. It used to run further into Oakland County. I think the testimony will show in the future that a lot of that has been taken in by covered drains. But, as the Red Run leaves Oakland County it first passes through Warren township, which is the township immediately adjacent to Oakland County, immediately east of Oakland County. The next township is Sterling Township. The next one is Clinton Township, and at Clinton Township the Red Run runs into a branch of the Clinton River. Our position is on that, of course, like this. The flooded condition not only exists in Mount Clemens. However, in Harrison Township it is the worst condition. I, myself, have lived in the county most of my life. It has been flooded many times. Some of the overflow runs back into the Red Run. The CHAIRMAN. Where would that overflow come from? Mr. RETZLAFF. From the Clinton River. There is a certain amount of backing up and, of course, as this backs up the water overflows. The CHAIRMAN. Does the water come from the lake or from the tributaries? Mr. RETZLAFF. It comes from the tributaries. It just does not run off. There is a certain amount of overflow. We have our own engineers that we have talked to. We believe this to be right; that if this cut-off that is contemplated by the engineers is put in there, then there will be a greater run off, and if the flow of the Clinton River is increased, naturally, the flow in the Red Run and the other tributaries will run off that much faster. We feel that that will greatly aid the areas that we are interested in. The CHAIRMAN. At present, there is an effort to clean, clear, and deepen the Red Run? Is that right? Mr. RETZLAFF. That is right. The CHAIRMAN. And the interests that you represent oppose that until this improvement is made below? Mr. RETZLAFF. That is right. So the record might be clear, we want to give you all the facts. There is a question of pollution. I know that is not before you entirely. That is one of the questions that has been raised. We do not want to misrepresent it at all. It is not only the overflow but a question of pollution. I presume on the question of pollution we will be able to work that out through the stream control commission in the State. The CHAIRMAN. That pollution evidently exists up there under present conditions? Mr. RETZLAFF. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. The quicker you get it ou the better? Mr. RETZLAFF. That is right. We feel that if the water runs off there rapidly, of course, it will benefit us. I would like to say at this time that I am anticipating something. I may be wrong. As Mr. Harper has said, we have no official notice of any opposition from Oakland. I presume because they are here that they are either here to support or oppose it. They have not told us they are going to oppose it. Perhaps we ought to anticipate that they are going to oppose it. We will not be here when that testimony goes in. We will not have that advantage. The CHAIRMAN. We will welcome you. Mr. RETZLAFF. I realize that but it is a long trip and we may not be here. The original program in 1938 called for the deepening of the branches of the Clinton and the Red Run Rivers, and I believe that was rejected because of the expense. We did not oppose that. In other words, I would like to leave the impression that we did not oppose Oakland County at that time, because anything that would relieve our condition and also relieve theirs was all right with us. As far as we are concerned, if in any way the Army engineers saw fit to extend the dredging of the Clinton River back into Oakland County or the Red Run, I would like to have the record clear that we are not here opposing that because if that helps them it is going to help us. What we are afraid of is because of the expense involved it will be turned down as it was in 1938. We have been offered the alternative, however. This cut-off has been suggested. We are perfectly willing in our county to accept that. From our conversation with the engineers, it will take care of most of our problems. The CHAIRMAN. Will these citizens and property owners along Red Run be required to contribute to the construction of this canal? Mr. RETZLAFF. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Will your people in your Mount Clemens area, in the event of a channelization of the Red Run, desired by them, be required to contribute to that? Mr. RETZLAFF. Not in the Mount Clemens area, I do not believe. Maybe the drainage commissioner can answer that. He can answer that more intelligently than I can. Mr. HARPER. Yes, sir. There is an established drainage district. The township of Harrison, the city of Mount Clemens, and the township of Sterling are not in that particular Red Run district. There are only two districts involved in that Macomb County; one is Sterling Township and one is Warren Township. I cannot speak for the districts in Oakland County. I believe I could state how many districts are in the Red Run. I think there are 10. I would like for the record to show this, that contributing into the Red Run drainage district are the districts of Hazel Park, the city of Ferndale, the city of Oak Park, the city of Pleasant Ridge, Royal Oak Township, Berkley, Clawson, part of Troy Township, and a part of South Field Township. They all contribute to the Red Run, from Red Run into the Clinton River. The testimony shows that in 1930 a population of 70,000 of Oakland County did contribute to it. It is safe to assume that at the present time the population of Oakland County is 150,000. I think that I am using conservative figures. The CHAIRMAN. Any further statements that you care to make? The CHAIRMAN. Any questions by members of the committee? If not, Mr. Wagner, do you desire to submit any other facts or any other statements into the report, either supporting it or opposing it? STATEMENT OF ALBERT A. WAGNER, MAYOR OF Mr. WAGNER. I do not have a prepared statement. There is one matter I would like to call to the attention of the committee. In the hearing held by the board of determination on the 13th day of March, the representatives of Oakland-and I am assuming they are going to oppose this project-did not vote against it. They passed. I think that it is very important that you have that information. There is another matter. In previous testimony that was rendered, the city engineer of Mount Clemens opposed the proposed spillway because of a bathing beach which was located on Lake St. Clair, but at this time he has changed his mind about it because it will in no way affect the bathing beach or the intake for the Mount Clemens waterworks, which is located about a mile from the shore on Lake St. Clair. The CHAIRMAN. Are there any communications interrupted by that cut-off, like highways or railways? Mr. WAGNER. There will be two main highways crossed by the proposed spillway. The CHAIRMAN. The local interests have got to provide the bridges? Mr. WAGNER. That is in the proposal that was set up by the engineers. The CHAIRMAN. In what business are you engaged, and what is your place of residence? Mr. WAGNER. My home is in Mount Clemens. I am the mayor of Mount Clemens. The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been the mayor? Mr. WAGNER. I have been mayor for approximately 1 year. The CHAIRMAN. You have heard the statement as to this project as made by your drainage commissioner and by Colonel Herb, speaking for the Corps of Engineers? Mr. WAGNER. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Do you favor that project and are your local people prepared to cooperate? Mr. WAGNER. One hundred percent. The CHAIRMAN. Any further statements you desire to make? The CHAIRMAN. We have been glad to have your statements. If you gentlemen have any additional facts you would like to submit, then we would be glad to have them. I think it is fair for me to read the following communications that have been submitted to the committee. I have this telegram from E. M. Shafter, city manager, Royal Oak: Hon. WILLIAM M. WHITTINGTON, ROYAL OAK, MICH. Member of Congress, House of Representatives: Circumstances have arisen in connection with the proposed improvement of Red Run Creek as a storm water outlet for a large drainage district in southern Oakland County, Mich., which would warrant the postponement of a hearing before the flood control committee concerning the proposed flood control improvement at the mouth of the Clinton River. This postponement is requested in order to permit the city of Royal Oak and other affected communities in southern Oakland County to present further testimony relative to these matters. E. M. SHAFTER, City Manager. I have this letter from the city manager of Ferndale: Mr. WILLIAM M. WHITTINGTON, APRIL 10, 1946. House of Representatives, Washington, D. C. DEAR SIR: We understand that the United States Army engineers have reported favorably on improvements at the mouth of the Clinton River. These improvements are to consist of a cut-off from Mount Clements to Lake St. Clair and it is our understanding that the report of the Army engineers recommends that the Federal Government pay the full cost of the construction work and that the cost of acquiring a right-of-way, building bridges and paying property damages are to be paid by the local communities. A hearing has been held by the drainage board and southern Oakland County is included in the district which will be assessed for the local communities' share of this project. On Tuesday, April 9, 1946, acting on petitions filed by Oakland County tax payers a hearing was called by Mr. John Hudson from the State department of agriculture with reference to deepening, widening, straightening and extending the Red Run drain from Twelve Mile Road and Campbell Road to the Clinton River. This drain is the natural water course which drains a large portion of Royal Oak Township which includes the cities of Ferndale, Royal Oak, Hazel Park, Pleasant Ridge, Clawson, Berkley and Oak Park. An injunction signed by a judge in the Macomb County courts was served on the members of the drainage board preventing any action or any meeting of the board. If this action is sustained it means that we will be assessed for improving the mouth of the Clinton River and at the same time we will be barred from the use of this improvement which is the natural drainage outlet for this area. I would appreciate it if you could have the hearing before the Flood Control |