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The CHAIRMAN. What would be necessary, if the alternate plan is adopted, to provide protection for Rossville ?

Mr. BEARD. At some time there would have to be another spur levee constructed tying into this alternate plan levee here and connecting across to high ground, subsequently as in our present proposal.

The CHAIRMAN. And if the amendment proposed by the proponents of the modification is adopted, would that result or not, without further legislation, in the protection of Rossville?

Mr. BEARD. Rossville could still get protection under the authorization when local cooperation is furnished, but it might cost the Government additional.

The CHAIRMAN. What local agencies have thus far agreed to comply with the requirements of the adopted project, who represent the local people, and have they agreed to furnish rights-of-way to maintain the project ?

Mr. BEARD. The Chattanooga Flood Control District, of which Mr. Fuller is the director-I am not sure whether or not he is chairman at the moment—has given us rights-of-way for a great deal of our survey work in Chattanooga, and it is the organization legally established to provide rights-of-way for the Chattanooga project in Tennessee.

The CHAIRMAN. What rights-of-way would be required in Georgia? Mr. BEARD. A very small piece of land about 1,000 feet long, where the levee will tie across into high ground in Georgia.

The CHAIRMAN. Judge Tarver, are the local interests of Georgia prepared to furnish that right-of-way?

Mr. TARVER. The local interests in Georgia, Mr. Chairman, I am sure will cooperate with the interests in Chattanooga in any effort made to reach a basis of understanding in an honest, fair, and sincere spirit of cooperation. The trouble has been that with Mr. Fuller directing the activities of the Chattanooga organization, no such effort has been made. As stated in Mayor Bowman's letter, he has been arrogant, dictatorial, uncooperative, and has advocated a plan to penalize Georgia rather than to cooperate with the authorities in Georgia with regard to this project. So we think all that is necessary in order to bring about the orderly consummation of the project is that it remain as provided by Congress in existing law, and that the proper officials of the Chattanooga Flood Control District make an honest effort to reach an agreement with the authorities in Georgia for the solution of their joint problems, which cannot be solved severally. The interests of Rossville cannot be properly divorced from the interests of Chattanooga.

The CHAIRMAN. I think the argument has been made that the Chattanooga district would have no authority to acquire levees in Georgia, and that Georgia would have no authority to acquire levees in Tennessee.

Mr. TARVER. That, of course, would be true, Mr. Chairman, but my information is that the Chattanooga district has not yet secured the approval of the people of that district, as it is required to do, to acquire the property rights that it would have to acquire, and there is considerable doubt among the people with whom I have talked in Chattanooga whether the people of the city will approve. So I do not think that the citizens of Rossville or Walker County can be charged with failing to reach an agreement on getting the necessary rights-of-way. They have at all times exhibited a spirit of cooperation.

The CHAIRMAN. I was just thinking of the legal power to condemn. Mr. TARVER. Of course, they have no authority to condemn property in the other State.

The CHAIRMAN. Has an appropriation been made for this project, Judge Tarver?

Mr. TARVER. No. There was a Budget estimate submitted for further planning in connection with the project, but it was denied by the House Appropriations Committee upon my suggestion, because of the pendency at that time of the so-called Walker County (Ga.) Reservoir plan, to which my people are very bitterly opposed. After the Crops of Engineers decided not to proceed further with the consideration of that plan, I advised members of the Senate Committee on Appropriations that I had no objection to approval of the Budget estimate if they desired to approve it, and I believe that since the committee not only approved it but increased it to $500,000 instead of $200,000, as the Budget recommended, but after that it was eliminated in conference and the appropriation has not been made.

The CHAIRMAN. I think it is fair to state that, with or without an appropriation, the Chief of Engineers has no authority under the adopted project to proceed with construction until local interests have given their assurances that the rights-of-way will be provided and that they will maintain the project after completion. General WHEELER. That is correct; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. So that the matter of cooperation would have to be determined before you could proceed with construction, even if an appropriation were made? General WHEELER. That is correct, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any questions by the committee? Mr. ALLEN. I want to ask you, Judge Tarver, about the population of Rossville. How many people are there in the city ?

Mr. TARVER. Of course, Rossville is growing very rapidly, and I would have to estimate the population. It is probably five or six thousand.

Mr. ALLEN. A rather large community, then ?

Mr. TARVER. Oh, yes, indeed; and one of the best cities in my district, which is one of the finest districts in the United States. [Laughter.]

Mr. ALLEN. Of course, that is true of all the districts that we represent. Mr. TARVER. That is all I have to present, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there other members of the committee who have some questions?

Mr. ROBINSON. I wonder if Mr. Fuller has been heard, Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; Mr. Fuller has been heard by the committee. The record will show that the Chattanooga project should have been considered when the Ohio Basin and its tributaries were considered. Judge Tarver stated that he would like to appear then. The record also shows that. Mr. Fuller subsequently appeared when Senators

and Representatives were to be heard, and he was heard, and Judge

Tarver stated that, if anybody was heard on the project, he would be glad to be heard. For that reason the committee granted him the privilege of appearing today

General Wheeler, is there any further matter that you desire to submit in connection with this case ? General WHEELER. No, sir; thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions? Thank you very much, Judge Tarver. That completes these hearings now, and in accordance with the committee, this record will be inserted in connection with the statements of Mr. Kefauver and Mr. Fuller.

(Whereupon, at 10:20 a. m., the committee proceeded to consideration of other business.)

(April 10, 1946–Continued) Now, Colonel, before we close the session of the committee this afternoon, is there any further statement you or your associate desire to submit with respect to the Ohio Valley and the project particularly considered today?

Colonel Dunn. I think this additional authorization that is all we need.

Mr. Wilson. Before the engineers leave, are you contemplating a request for the dams of the Whitewater River in this next program?

Colonel Dunn. No, sir.
Mr. WILSON. Not for the next year, 1947?
Colonel Dunn. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Any other questions? [No response.] Mr. Wilson, this morning and again this afternoon we went into that pretty fully.

Mr. McCoWEN. I should call the committee's attention to those six or seven estimated river flood-protection projects in my district that were in that 1941 session.

The CHAIRMAN. I would be glad for you to make them at this point while your representatives are here, and I would like for you to insert them in the record at this time.

Mr. Wilson. They are not asking that the Shoals Dam be author· ized ?

The CHAIRMAN. No. I think that is pretty clear. Mr. McCoWEN. Manchester, Ohio; New Richmond, Ohio; Ripley, Ohio; Moscow, Ohio; Aberdeen, Ohio; and Chilo, Ohio. Í believe that is all of them. 'Oh, yes, Higginsport, Ohio.' Did I get all of them?

Colonel WEST. I believe you did, sir. Mr. McCowen. It is not necessary for me to give the estimates here, is it, Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. No; not at all. Mr. McCOWEN. I would like to make this one other statement. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. Mr. McCoWEN. Colonel Strong, district engineer at Cincinnati, and I have had meetings in four of those towns with the mayor and village councils. They have been public meetings attended by many citizens. We have already had them at New Richmond, Higginsport, Ripley, and Manchester. We contemplate having similar meetings in those other three towns I mentioned a minute ago.

Indardow, General Wheew how to make theetings. He

And we are finding a great interest; and I want to say for the record that Colonel Strong did a swell job for his part in those meetings. He certainly did know his subject and he knew how to make the expression. ; The CHAIRMAN. Now, General Wheeler, the division engineer for the New England area, his name is what, please?

General WHEELER. Maj. Gen. D. L. Weart.

Mr. WARNER. I want to say this: The Governor of Ohio and the Adjutant General of Ohio National Guard are very much interested in the development of Salt Creek by the engineers, that they are now working on, and we want a change of our National Guard camp, and that depends upon the building of the Salt Creek Reservoir, as other reservoirs in the Scioto-Sandusky Conservancy District. The Governor has written to you about that, and so has the Adjutant General of the State of Ohio.

The CHAIRMAN. He got a reply the same day that I received his letter.

Mr. WARNER. I also wanted to bring you that message, because they wanted to be sure to emphasize the fact that we want enough appropriations so that the Army engineers will be sure to make that.

The CHAIRMAN. I would say that not only will the Governor get a response, but every citizen of the United States, no matter from what State, who submits a request or communication to the Committee on Flood Control, gets a prompt reply.

(Discussion off the record.)

The CHAIRMAN. The committee stands adjourned until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.

(Whereupon, at 4:05 p. m., Wednesday, April 10, 1946, the committee adjourned to meet at 10 a. m., Thursday, April 11, 1946.)

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