The Duke of Manchester lamented, in a very fenfible Duke of manner, the present fituation of affairs, the dangerous confe- Manchefiers quences of a civil war, which he feared would terminate as the focial war among the Romans did, in the inevitable deAtruction of the whole empire. He was moderate, pathetic, and drew the attention of every fide of the House. He did not pretend to determine on the contents of the present bill, nor adopt it throughout; all he wished was, that one sober view fhould be taken of the great queftion, before perhaps we blindly rushed into a scene of confufion and civil ftrife, the event of which it was impoffible to foresee.

The Earl Temple faid, that he had never given, in public or Earl Temples private, a decided opinion, whether it was wife or not to pass the ftamp act; but that he was abundantly convinced that all the evils and diftractions now complained of, were derived from the fatal repeal of it. That the bills of last year were more exceptionable as to the mode than as to the matter. He faid nothing with regard to the contents of the bill which had been read, and finished with expreffing his disapprobation of rejecting in so harth and unprecedented a manner, a bill defigned for the moft falutary purposes, and prefented to their Lordships, by a hand fo truly respectable as that of his noble friend and relation. This reafon alone deciding upon his

vote.

This debate lafted till almost ten o'clock, when the queftion being put, there appeared for the Earl of Sandwich's amendment, Contents 61, Non-contents 32; fo the bill was rejected, and not suffered to lay upon the table.

The minority were, Dukes of Cumberland

Richmond

Devonshire

Portland

Manchester

Lords

February 7.

Lord George Germaine, accompanied by about twenty members of the House of Commons, delivered a meffage at the bar of the Lords, defiring a conference with their Lordfhips in the painted chamber. His Lordship then withdrew for a few minutes, and being called in again, was informed, that their Lordships would immediately attend. The Lord Keeper next proceeded to call on fuch Lords as were willing to meet the Commons, in order to manage the faid conference in behalf of the Lords, when the following, among several. others, attended accordingly: Lords Gower, Sandwich, Dartmouth, Denbigh, Plymouth, Cathcart and Townshend; the Duke of Grafton, and the Bishops of London and Peterborough. In a few minutes their Lordships returned, and the Lord Prefident [Earl Gower] reported, that the managers for the Lords had met the managers for the Commons at a conference, which on the part of the Commons was managed by Lord North, who acquainted the managers for the Lords, that they had taken into confideration the ftate of his Majefty's colonies, in North America, and had agreed upon an addrefs to be prefented to his Majefty, to which they defired the concurrence of this House. Then his Lordship read the address delivered at the conference.-And the fame being again read by the Clerk,

[The addrefs, and the debates upon it, in the House of Commons, may be feen in the first volume, page 132 to 170]

The Earl of Dartmouth and the Marquis of Rockingham both rifing to fpeak, a debate arose who should speak first.

In this confufion the lord Keeper [Lord Apfley] put the question, "Is it your Lordships pleasure that the Earl of Dartmouth be now heard?" This called up the Duke of Richmond, who contended, that it was a moft flavish position to fay, that any Lord in that House should have a preference before another; and that the preference fhould be determined by the Houfe. Lord Mansfield replied, that he had always understood it was in the option of the Chairman, in either Houfe (the Speaker in the other, and the Lord Keeper in this) to fo far decide, as at leaft to put the question on which of the two perfons he pleased. To prove this, his Lordship cited an inftance in a committee of the Houfe of Commons on the Spanish convention in 1739, when two members rifing at the fame inftant, to make motions of a direct contrary tendency, Mr. Winnington, the chairman, pointed to one of them in preference to the other, which gave birth to the witty obfervation of Mr. Pulteney, afterwards Earl of Bath,

in the course of the debate, "That the Chairman had made the deadeft point he ever saw in his life." Lord Camden urged the neceffity and juftice of their previously accepting the petition of the merchants, which he understood the noble Marquis had to prefent, and hearing the merchants allegations: he told the House, they not only fat there in their reprefentative, but in their judicial capacity, and were there fore bound by all the ties of official duty, to get every light and information upon the fubject before them; otherwise, their coming to a determination could not be acting in the fpirit of the conftitution. He preffed them but for a day, which would not create any delay, and in that time he had no doubt their Lordships would receive that folid information founded on the trueft proofs, commercial experience; which would, perhaps, influence their Lordships to think differently from what they then did. Earl Gower infifted that fuch a mode of proceeding was totally unusual and unparliamentary; that very early in life, much about the period the noble and learned Lord [Lord Mansfield] alluded to, he remembered a circumftance which came directly in point; it was on an intended motion of the late Lord Halifax's, when the Lord Keeper decided against him, that another noble Lord fhould be first heard. [In all this hurry and confufion, the true point on which the preference contended for refted, seemed to be entirely mistaken, till the Earl of Denbigh obferved, that the preference was with the noble Earl, out of the respect due to the other branch of the legiflature.] The queftion was at length put, and the motion was carried without a divifion.

The Earl of Dartmouth accordingly rofe, and after put- Earl of ting in his claim to be heard to the quefton at large, moved, Dartmouth, that the blank in the addrefs prefented by the Commons at the conference, and now communicated by the Lord Prefident, fhould be filled up with the words "Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and."

one

The Marquis of Rockingham acquainted the House, that Marquis of the matter which he rose to was to prefent petitions, Rockingham, from the merchants of London concerned in the commerce to North America, and the other from the Weft-India merchants, and planters; that he imagined their contents were of the highest importance, were immediately relative to the business under confideration, and were well worthy of arrefting any determination of this Houfe, for at least one day, being certain, that within that fhort period, information of infinite confequence would be laid before their Lordships, per

Earl

fret.

haps fufficient to alter, or at least soften the rigour of the measures they were now madly, haftly, and blindly proceeding to adopt. His Lordship then defired the petitions might be read, which being complied with, he obferved, as a queftion was now before the Houfe, that muft be firft difpofed of; and as confequently the fubject matter of petitions could not regularly come under the cognizance of the Houfe; and that he still hoped the House would be willing to hear the petitioners, as men fuffering under the heaviest misfortunes, none of which could be attributed to their own mifconduct, he would be under the neceffity, as the only means left, of moving the previous queftion, which would open a door for taking into confideration a general fate of the petitioners grievances. The previous question was accordingly put, and his Lordfhip proceeded. He obferved, that until the previous queftion was first difpofed of, he could not regularly enter into a difcuffion of the addrefs; but he would, nevertheless, in this ftage of the business, affure the Houfe, that there was one paragraph in it, which he totally difclaimed, and defired to be understood, neither to have act or part in, that was, where both Houses were to affure his Majefty, they would in fupport of the measures therein recommended, hazard their lives and fortunes; for he now openly declared, he would neither rifque nor hazard life or fortune in fuch a caufe. He faid the noble mover adverted to fomething which he did not perfectly understand, about unanimity. If every man who oppofed this address, were prefumed to be actuated by falfe notions of popularity or factious motives, he believed four-fifths of the nation would fall under that predicament; but this he could anfwer for himself, at all events, that he should not tread in the steps of his noble, but ill-fated anceftor, [Lord Strafford] who first courted popular favour, and then deferted the cause he had embarked in; for as he had fet out by fupporting the cause of the people against the tyranny and arbitrary measures of minifters, fo he fhould neyer, for any temptation whatsoever, defert or betray them, but would perfevere to the very laft, in endeavouring to obtain for them a full reparation for all the injuries they had fuftained.

Pom- The Earl Pomfret contended, that the fea was our proper element; was against a land war, and ftrenuously urged the neceffity of sending a naval force fufficient to block up their harbours, and by that means to cut off their communication with all other powers, and put a total top to their

Commerce,

The

The Earl of Denbigh united in this opinion on general Earl of principles, but infifted that a military force would be necef- Denbigh. fary for the protection of his Majefty's loyal fubjects, who would be otherwife expofed to the fury and violence of their merciless perfecutors.

Earl Gower adhered closely to the immediate queftion be. Earl Gower. fore the House, the propriety of entering into an immediate examination of the matter contained in the petitions intended to be presented by the noble Marquis. He faid, the petitioners were perfons who deferved every mark of attention and refpect which the House could pay them, confiftently with the interefts of the empire at large; and although their grievances were imaginary, their complaints were nevertheless deferving of indulgence. He trufted, however, when they maturely confidered that the steps now taken were to prevent the return of fuch evils in future, they would chearfully acquiefce in the wisdom of parliament in the prefent inftance, and be gratefully thankful hereafter; for if the fupremacy of the legislature was once given up, their trade, commerce, and every poffible advantage accruing from either, would foon be annihilated. He therefore hoped, that the merchants would, on the prefent occafion, fubmit to a temporary inconvenience, nay a fhort-lived diftrefs, to infure the most permanent and important benefits; and manifeft that degree of magnanimity which a fenfe of their own interefts, founded in fubmiffion and acquiefcence to the wifdom of Parliament, muft, upon mature confideration and past experience, moft certainly fuggeft.

Lord Mansfield faid, it was impoffible to confine the atten- Lord Manf tion of the House merely to the matter of the previous quef- field. tion. He perfectly coincided in fentiment with the noble Earl, who afferted, that we were reduced to the alternative of adopting coercive measures, or of forever relinquishing our claim of fovereignty or dominion over the colonies; for confider the quefton in ever fo many lights, fays his Lordship, every middle way, every attempt to unite the oppofite claims of the contending parties, ends, and is ultimately founded in one refolution or the other. His Lordship obferved, that one of the moft able American writers, after the fulleft and clearest investigation of the fubject, at last confeffes, that no medium can poffibly be devifed, which will exclude the inevitable confequence of either fyftem abfolutely prevailing ; for that take it up on which ground you would, the fupremacy of the British legiflature must be compleat, entire, and unconditional; or on the other hand, the colonies must be

free