Colonel COVELL. We make permanent the abandonment of gas wells. The CHAIRMAN. You can't go on and get the gas through the pools? Colonel COVELL. Only with a lot of difficulty. In some cases we can, in which case we are responsible for fixing the well up so that we can do it.

The CHAIRMAN. I know in the case of oil many of our best fields are in lakes and along the ocean.

Colonel COVELL. Yes, sir; and where we can do that we are responsible for the necessary changes in the well.

The CHAIRMAN. So much for that. How much for railroad? Colonel COVELL. Railroad relocation, $8,600,000, and miscellaneous improvements, $4,200,000; highway alterations, $2,800,000; and a dike at Salamanca, N. Y., to protect the town, $400,000.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, at present at Salamanca, N. Y., is there any sort of flood protection or flood problem there?

Colonel COVELL. No, sir; but if the dam were ever filled we would back up the water that far, and we want to build a little dike to protect a little end of the town.

The CHAIRMAN. What acreage is necessary approximately to be acquired in that reservoir, and how much would be in New York, and how much in Pennsylvania?

Colonel COVELL. At elevation 1,365 feet above sea level the reservoir will include a total of 21,000 acres, of which 9,500 are in Pennsylvania, and 11,500 in New York. It will extend approximately 33 miles upstream from the dam.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any towns to be moved?

Colonel COVELL. No towns that I remember there-yes, they do affect one or two little towns, such as Kinzua.

The CHAIRMAN. What, generally, is the character of the land? Colonel COVELL. The lands are largely included in reservations, the Corn Planter Reservation, in Pennsylvania, and the Allegany, which is spelled A-1-1-e-g-a-n-y. It is different from the river, and that is in New York.

The CHAIRMAN. In New York?

Colonel COVELL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you anticipate any difficulty in acquiring easements in either of those States for that reservoir?

Colonel COVELL. In the Corn Planter Reservation, which is in Pennsylvania, there was a grant from the Pennsylvania Commonwealth to the Seneca chief and his descendants. That is a State reservation, so that the right of eminent domain of the Federal Government should be sufficient to get that with no difficulty.

The CHAIRMAN. What do your investigations show as to the possible difficulties of acquiring rights-of-way in the State of New York? Colonel COVELL. In the Allegany Reservation it is what might be termed a Federal Indian reservation, and it is quite complicated. The legal section of the office of the Chief of Engineers is now studying as to whether it would be necessary to get an act of Congress to clarify the matter. My own personal opinion is that it probably would, because they have a treaty. The Federal Government has a treaty with Indians. While they do not have the basic title, and that resides in the Ogden Land Co., the Indians have the right of possession forever, and they cannot alienate that without the approval of the Federal Government.

The CHAIRMAN. I am not interested in the details at present. I just asked the general question as to whether there would be any difficulty in acquiring title to rights-of-way.

Colonel COVELL. Yes; we would probably need some authorization of Congress.

The CHAIRMAN. Come back to my original question on the Commonwealth of New York now.

Colonel COVELL. In the Commonwealth of New York they have a State forest there and that could probably be obtained by condemnation under the eminent domain of the Federal Government.

The CHAIRMAN. What would be the effect in the reduction in the kind of flood there was in 1936 in Pittsburgh by the construction of the Allegheny Reservoir, as explained in connection with the Tionesta and other reservoirs?

Colonel COVELL. Well, the Allegheny Reservoir, had it been in operation in March 1936, would have reduced that flood by seventenths of a foot.

The CHAIRMAN. Seven-tenths of a foot?
Colonel COVELL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And the dam would cost approximately $16,000,000, and the remainder of the $35,000,000 in all is for lands, damages, and so forth. Now, Colonel, I have asked you about your reservoirs and the ones under construction. Is there any other statement that you desire to submit with respect to the desirability of an authorization for this Allegheny Reservoir?

Colonel COVELL. No, sir; we think it is a very excellent project. It gives an economic ratio of a yearly cost of 1 to yearly benefits of 2.81, and we think that is pretty good.

Mr. KELLER. May I ask a question, Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. KELLER. I understood you to say something about the use of water from these dams for the purpose of diluting pollution; that is your idea, is it not?

Colonel COVELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. KELLER. Is there any way of preventing stream pollution outside of that?

Colonel COVELL. Oh, yes.

Mr. KELLER. Why do we not insist on this antipollution bill? We just recently passed a bill to compel those cities, villages, and manufacturing plants to prevent pollution, or is that an impractical affair?

Colonel COVELL. I know of no sewage-treatment plants in the entire State of Pennsylvania on these three rivers, the Allegheny, the Monongahela, or the Upper Ohio River, but, of course, that should be done. They ought to get them, but the cost is tremendous at the city of Pittsburgh, for example, which does not have the money to do it at the present time. There is a State act, I believe, although I am not familiar with it, that requires all of these towns to do it, but they have not done it for financial reasons. Mr. KELLER. I am interested in it only because pollution there does poison the water all the rest of the way down. They have a perfect right to good water.

The CHAIRMAN. I have just one more question. What is the estimated cost of the project at Johnstown?

Colonel COVELL. Our latest estimate is $8,300,000.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the original estimate?

Colonel COVELL. The original estimate was $7,600,000 or $7,700,000. The CHAIRMAN. What local protective works under the acts of 1938, 1937, or 1936, are under way in your district?

Colonel COVELL. We have a project at Wellsville. The first unit was separate and complete. We now have the money and are waiting for the approval of the plans, or, rather, waiting for the land to go ahead with the second unit. Kittanning is under advertisement and will be started immediately after we get the land.

The CHAIRMAN. Take Wellsville. What is the estimated cost of that project to the Government, substantially.

Colonel COVELL. We estimated it around $450,000, or something like that, but we actually constructed it for about $382,000. The CHAIRMAN. What is the local cost?

Colonel COVELL. The cost to the local interests there was very minor, only about $4,000 or $5,000.

The CHAIRMAN. Why?

Colonel COVELL. Because they owned some land, and the rest of it did not cost very much. It was a floodwall, partly concrete and partly earth dike.

The CHAIRMAN. Does that protect the residential district of that town?

Colonel COVELL. That protects the northern part and the main part of the town against a flood greater than that of 1936.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the population of the town?

Colonel COVELL. The population of Wellsville is, I would guess, around 10,000 or 12,000.

The CHAIRMAN. Take Kittanning; what is your project there, and what is the estimate?

Colonel COVELL. The estimated cost is $164,000, and that has been advertised.

The CHAIRMAN. The cost to the local interests is what?

Colonel COVELL. I do not know what it will cost them, but I would say about $10,000 or $15,000.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that a floodwall?

Colonel COVELL. It is a floodwall. It is really raising a protective dike for the navigation dam which is there.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, then, at Wellsville you are going to put up another concrete floodwall there?

Colonel COVELL. Partly concrete and partly earth dike.
The CHAIRMAN. Is Wellsville a steel center?

Colonel COVELL. No, sir. It was at one time. They had some shops on the Pennsylvania Railroad, but they moved out and the town does not have any main industry now. It is right near the pottery industry at East Liverpool, which is around there, but there is no big industry in the town at the present time.

The CHAIRMAN. What about Kittanning and the size of it?

Colonel COVELL. That is larger. It is a county seat. I do not know the exact population, but I would say 10,000 or 12,000; something like that.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other projects under way or desired by the local interests in your district?

Colonel COVELL. The only other one under way, of course, is Johnstown. The new ones desired by local interests are, first, Elkins, W. Va., then Punxsutawney, Pa., and Buckhannon and the Golden Triangle at Pittsburgh.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you estimate as the cost to the local interests of protection in the Golden Triangle at Pittsburgh?

Colonel COVELL. That is now under study. We do not have that finished now, Mr. Chairman, but it will be around between $2,000,000 and $3,000,000, and it begins to look favorable.

The CHAIRMAN. What other local protective projects have you got for the cities of Pittsburgh, McKeesport, or any of the outlying municipalities or boroughs.

Colonel COVELL. We have a number.

The CHAIRMAN. What will those local protective works in the metropolitan area cost? You have none under way at present? Colonel COVELL. No; none under way at present.

The CHAIRMAN. What would be the estimated cost of them?
Colonel COVELL. We have not got that.

The CHAIRMAN. Are they necessary?

Colonel COVELL. We certainly have a very definite flood problem there. It remains to be seen whether they can be economically justified or not. We are well along on those studies, and there is some indication that they will be justified.

The CHAIRMAN. What has the city of Pittsburgh sought to provide against a recurrence of the St. Patrick's Day flood in 1936, in the Golden Triangle?

Colonel COVELL. The city as a city has not done very much, but the property owners have done a lot. Horn's department store has spent about $1,000,000 to protect themselves against a recurrence of the 1936 flood.

The CHAIRMAN. In what way, generally?

Colonel COVELL. By constructing bulkheads for their show windows, and the Pittsburgh Press has made similar arrangements. The Westinghouse Electric Co. in East Pittsburgh, and that is on Turtle Creek, has built what they call an upside-down dam; that is, a dam to stop the backwater from coming in. The Aluminum Co. of America, at Kingston, has built a wall, and other individuals have constructed smaller works.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, Colonel, you said Elkins, W. Va., and some other localities were desirous of local protective works?

Colonel COVELL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How much in funds do you feel we have authorized that can be utilized for local protective works that have not been expended in your district?

Colonel COVELL. For Elkins, we estimate $1,137,000 to the Federal Government. The local interest cost is relatively small, $13,400, with an economic ratio of one of cost to two of benefits per year. The CHAIRMAN. Where else?

Colonel COVELL. At Punxsutawney, $423,150 is the Federal cost. The cost to the local interests is $75,850, with an economic ratio of one to four.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the next one?

Colonel COVELL. And the next one, in my opinion, would be Pittsburgh, but we have not got the final figures on that because the study is not yet done, but it looks now as though that will be justified with a high economic ratio.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any funds authorized that would be available for either Elkins or the other projects that you mentioned, or for any unit of the metropolitan projects?

Colonel COVELL. That could be best answered by either the chief's office or the division, but I understand that there is some money authorized that could be applied to them.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any further statement that you have in mind with reference to flood-control works in your district? Colonel COVELL. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any questions, Mr. Keller?

Mr. KELLER. I would like to know what can be done as to nullifying the wastes that come out of these mines and go into these rivers.

Colonel COVELL. That is an interesting study. I think the W. P. A. has had a project of sealing those mines. I think, at least, the State of Pennsylvania and the State of West Virginia have been very active in it, but there is the danger in that. All of this immense amount of sewage is being dumped raw into the river. The acid coming from the mines, and I think it is sulfuric acid, acts to kill those germs. Now, if you were to suddenly stop all mine drainage you would probably be in a terrible fix, because the natural purifying effects of the streams would not be enough to kill all of those germs and it would be much worse than it is now, so that the two of them must go together. If the mine drainage sealing gets away ahead of the other you are going to have trouble.

Mr. KELLER. As a matter of fact, you can nullify the effect of those waters, as they come from the mines, I understand." Colonel COVELL. You mean seal them?

Mr. KELLER. Without any very great difficulty?
Colonel COVELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. KELLER. It is effective, is it not?

Colonel COVELL. Yes; but you do not want to get ahead of the sewage, because if you do you are going to have trouble.

Mr. KELLER. If you go ahead and dispose of the sewage as we ought to do and then seal the mines, then we can have good stream water again?

Colonel COVELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. KELLER. Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Colonel.

Mr. Edgar.

STATEMENT OF R. E. EDGAR, SECRETARY OF THE TRI-STATE AUTHORITY; ALSO SECRETARY OF THE FLOOD CONTROL COMMITTEE OF THE PITTSBURGH CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

The CHAIRMAN. Give your name, please, and your position, official or private, as the case may be.

Mr. EDGAR. R. E. Edgar. I am secretary of the Tri-State Authority and also secretary of the flood-control committee of the Pittsburgh Chamber of Commerce.