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B. W. Nye, Referee

H. D. Van Benthuysen, Hearing Stenographer.

Mother, rep'd by B. J. O'Rourke, Esq.
Samuel Kaltman, Esq., for Employer and Carrier

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HELEN CUNNIUS, 1393 Flatbush Ave., Brooklyn, N. Y., being duly sworn, testified for claimant as follows:


Direct examination by Mr. O'Rourke:

Q. Where were you on the night of September 5th, 1933 ? A. I was in the “shell house."

Q. What shell house? A. In the Farragut Theater.

Q. In Brooklyn? A. In Brooklyn.

Q. What time did you enter there? A. I was in there about half past eight.

Q. What happened while you were there? A. There was an explosion there, and Mr. De Vellier picked up

Minutes, May 31, 1933
Helen Cunnius, for claimant, direct


Q. Just a moment. There was an explosion in the theatre? A. In the theatre. It was down in the



Q. Where were you sitting? A. I was in the orchestra, in the back.

Q. Well, did you know Mr. William De Vellier? A. Just as manager, see, going in there.

Q. You mean you knew that he was the manager of the theatre? A. Yes, I knew he was the manager there.

Q. Now, was there a lot of commotion there at the time? A. Yes.

Q. Now, with respect to Mr. De Vellier, what did you see? A. Well, I saw him go down and pick up an old woman, picked her right up in his arms, and brought her upstairs.

Q. Where was the woman when he picked her up? A. She was down in the middle aisle.

Q. She was in the middle aisle between the seats? A. I would not say that she was in the seats. I seen him pick her up and come up the aisle.

Did you see him pick her off the floor? A. No, he came up the aisle holding her in his arms.

Q. Was this immediately after the accident took place? A. No, it was quite a bit after that; quite a bit after that.

Q. It was after the rest of the people had rushed out? What did you do, go out right away? A. Well, I went upstairs to see what was going on.

Q. How far did you see Mr. De Vellier carry this woman? A. I saw him carry her from about


Minutes, May 31, 1933
Helen Cunnius, for claimant, cross


the middle of the aisle, the center aisle, upstairs to the ladies' room.

Q. I see. Was there anything else you know about this? A. Well, there was another lady he helped to pick her up, and there was a man helped him with this other lady.

Q. mean, did you see him do anything else with this one particular woman that he had taken away? A. No, only brought her upstairs, that's all I could see. I don't know what else he did.

Mr. O'Rourke: That's all.


Cross-examination by Mr. Kaltman:

Q. Mrs. Cunnius, how often had you gone into that theatre before September 5th ? A. Well, I go in there,—it is in the same block—I go in twice a week, pretty near.

Q. And you knew him as manager? A. As manager there.

Q. You didn't know what his name was at that time? A. Yes, I did know his name. Yes.

Q. Had you talked to him any time prior to September 5th ? A. Yes, I talked to him many times.

Q. Addressed him as Mr. De Vellier? A. Yes, by “Mr. De Vellier."

Q. You didn't know his first name? A. I knew him from the people that worked in the show house. I knew quite a number of people that worked there. I was a matron there myself years ago.

Q. I see. A. So I know the people there.


Minutes, May 31, 1933
Helen Cunnius, for claimant, cross



Q. You didn't know him as manager when you were matron in there? A. No, he wasn't there when I was there.

Q. How long prior to that were you matron there? A. Oh, about three years.

Q. Three years. Now, then, something happened, an explosion happened? A. Yes.

Q. Then you saw a lot of activity while you were in back of the orchestra, is that right? A. Yes, everybody started to run.

Q. Did you run with them? A. No.

Q. Did you sit right there? A. No, I didn't sit in the same place. I got up and went in the back.

Q. You got up from your seat, you were in the orchestra? A. Went up to the back.

Q. Went up to the lobby? A. Yes, at the back of the theatre.

Q. In back of the orchestra- A. Yes.

Q. The space in back of the orchestra A. Yes.

Q. -To where the stairways are that lead to the ladies' room? A. Yes.

Q. Is there a balcony in that theatre? A. Yes.
Q. Stairway leading to the balcony? A. Yes.

Q. You Mr. DeVellier carrying some woman- A. Up the aisle.

Q. Up to the ladies' room? A. Yes.
Q. Did you stop and talk to him then? A. No.

Q. There were a lot of people around, weren't there? A. There were lots of people there.



Minutes, May 31, 1933
Helen Cunnius, for claimant, cross


Q. And then he came down again? A. Yes.

Q. Was he walking fast when he came down? A. No, he was out of breath.

Q. He was out of breath? A. From coming downstairs after carrying the woman.

Q. Then he went right back to the place where he came from? A. No, there was a woman lying right there by the stairs.

Q. Did he walk slowly towards this woman? A. He went over to the woman. Went downstairs and came over to her.

Q. Did he walk slowly to that woman? A. I could not just exactly say that he walked slowly or fast.

Q. Nothing unusual about his walk that would call your attention to it? A. No.


Q. Then he went down to this other woman? A. Yes.

Q. Assisted in carrying this other woman? A. Yes, with this man.

Q. With another man. Was the second woman any heavier than the other woman? A. Very big



Q. Did they go back up the staircase to the ladies' room? A. He brought her upstairs, the woman, and he went upstairs, and Mr. DeVellier, I don't know if he had assistance or not to help her upstairs. There was another girl assisted her alongside.

Q. Did you go upstairs yourself? I understood you to say you went upstairs to see what was going

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