Mr. NEWTON. Oh, yes; they appear to be; and people that know about it have told me so.

Mr. SWEET. As I recall Mr. Bigelow, the director of public works, told us that the island itself was spending many times more in local improvements than they were asking from the Government.

Mr. NEWTON. Absolutely. For instance, at Honolulu the harbor is not big enough. There are a lot of these small boats. fishing craft, that we saw at Waukeke Beach. They have an extensive harbor there, improved at their own expense. They have not asked the Government to pay anything on this improvement.

The CHAIRMAN. Please give us your statistics as to the relative size of the different islands, and as to the population of this island, and as to its appraised valuation, so we may know.

Mr. NEWTON. I have not this island segregated, but I know its population is very limited in comparison with its possibility of maintaining population. This island [indicating Hawaii is not developed.

The CHAIRMAN. In comparison with its area?

Mr. NEWTON." I mean in comparison with its area, yes, It has atent resources. There is no doubt this island will develop just like Oahu has developed if you will give them a harbor, and we will really be the beneficiaries of its development.

The CHAIRMAN. What we ought to do is to get into the record if we can, so we can present it to the House when this item is up for debate, these commercial statistics, the size of the island, the area of rich lands available, the present value of the agricultural lands there, the population, and the probable future of the island. Mr. NEWTON. Well, I think I can get that probably. Governor Farrington has some figures tabulated for that. The CHAIRMAN. Maybe General Beach has that.

I think

as

Mr. NEWTON. Here is an interesting thing. As much area there is undeveloped over there, there is but one State in this Union that pays as much taxes per capita, and that is New York. New York paid $77.56 per capita in 1922; Hawaii paid $60.50. That includes the entire population-Japanese, Chinese, and all.

The largest canning factory in the world, except one I saw at Hawaii. It is a pineapple canning factory.

I think it is only fair to consider the equities of the situation, and that we are getting more in proportion to what we expend in the Hawaiian Islands than we are getting anywhere else.

They have presented claims in proportion to what they are entitled to when it comes to the distribution of Federal aid. For instance, take the Federal aid for the improvement of roads and schools. Here are some States that paid less in taxes than Hawaii to the Federal Government last year, and this is what they received in the way of Federal aid:

Nebraska received $7,440,000; Alabama received $7,329,000 in Federal aid; Montana received $7,045,000 in Federal aid; Mississippi received $6,246,000 in Federal aid; Arkansas received $5,874,000 from the Federal Government; South Carolina received $5,007,000; Wyoming received $4,413,000; Florida received $4,036,000 in the year 1923; Maine received $3,341,000; Connecticut received $2,170,000; New Hampshire received $1,508,000. And Hawaii never got a cent.

Mr. LYON. Would you give your figures on North Carolina? Mr. NEWTON. It is higher up. North Carolina received $7,980,000. In other words, we appropriated last year $100,000,000 for Government aid to public roads. Hawaii received nothing from this fund while 22 States that did not pay as much in the way of taxes to our Federal Government as Hawaii, yet they are receiving the sums I have given as Federal aid.

We have passed a bill now so that in the future they will get those benefits, but their road benefits will not be very much because they have not the mileage in Hawaii.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it not true that where a State is improving its roads generally in accordance with the times, the Federal aid for road improvements cuts scarcely any figure?

Doctor KINDRED. I am not going to take time to differ with so distinguished a gentleman, but don't you think what is done by the Federal Government for roads in unimproved sections is immensely valuable?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; I agree to that. But take a community like our own State, and the Federal aid does not amount to much.

Mr. NEWTON. I notice this interesting fact in going over the figures; that the larger the area the more benefits they get out of road aid, the big State gets the big aid. The Hawaiian Islands are very limited in area, and so would not be benefited to the same extent.

The soil of the islands is capable of intensive farming. The lowlands are devoted to raising sugar and on the higher ground we find pineapples raised. You see large areas planted in pineapples. They tell me that is true generally throughout the islands, that sugar is raised on the low ground and then comes pineapples, and then they have a lot of other possibilities there. Up to date, I think 90 per cent of our revenue comes from the incomes from the pineapple and sugar industries.

Another thing they do that is interesting. They do not refine much sugar there; they run it through the mills and get the juice and run it through the first process and get molasses. The ocean steamers then come and get that molasses and bring it to the States. Practically all the market for that sugar is in the States, and they bring a lot of it to Los Angeles, and some to San Francisco, and the big refineries are there. So it is necessary in order to carry that great quantity of stuff to have big steamers get into the harbors where they can dock in safety.

Doctor KINDRED. One question, please, about the tax rates. You spoke of the per capita rate for the Hawaiian Islands. You said they paid almost as great a rate of tax as New York State. That is rather a high rate. Why do they pay such a high rate?

Mr. NEWTON. That is the income tax.

The CHAIRMAN. It is a tax in proportion to what they have.

Mr. NEWTON. There is one other thing I would like to mention that shows their patience and loyalty. I do not think many other peoples would be as loyal and patient as they are. I was going on this trip around the islands. There are not very many streams, in fact, there is not very much space on the islands for streams, but there was a little stream coming down, and there was a bridge over

it, and I noticed how that was constructed. It was not only braced underneath, but it was braced overhead with crossbeams of concrete that must have been a foot square, reinforced concrete. I had never seen anything supported like that bridge, and I asked the mayor of Oahu, the mayor of that island (they have a mayor for the whole islands, and a mayor for each island) why they built a bridge like that, and he explained to it me. He told me that they were spending $80,000 a mile in Oahu to build those roads, because our Government has powerful war vehicles that we are sending over those roads. That the roads all have to be very heavy to carry the load. Still they do not get any Government aid for those roads. This is the only place I know where we get such a large return for what we spend. This improvement in Hilo Harbor is not only justified by the commerce, justified by the future possibilities of developing a commerce that will pay back into our Treasury many times what we spend, but the equity of the whole situation demands it. The CHAIRMAN. If General Beach can not give us those statistics, will you procure them and put them in the record?

Mr. LYON. I would like for this to go into the record.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. LYON. I understood the figures given as to the amount of revenue for different States; I understood you were just referring to income tax.

Mr. NEWTON. No; it is revenue into the Treasury.

Mr. LYON. I know you stated North Carolina, $9,000,000.

Mr. NEWTON. That was Federal aid for 1922.

Mr. LYON. Well, for 1922 it was $122,413,329.

Mr. NEWTON. That was internal revenue taxes paid by North Carolina in 1922. Your figures are correct.

Mr. LYON. And for 1923 it was $143,347,366.

The CHAIRMAN. Not only that, about 10 years ago we saw in the Associated Press dispatches that North Carolina now has more cotton spindles than any other State.

Mr. LYON. No; not more spindles, but in February we had more active spindles.

Mr. McDUFFIE. Gaston County, in North Carolina, has 104 cotton mills, and some others under construction. That is the result of hydroelectric development. North Carolina was once the poorest State in the Union. That was at the end of the Civil War.

The CHAIRMAN. They have been doing in North Carolina what we have contemplated doing in the country.

Mr. McDUFFIE. That is it exactly.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you a report?

General BEACH. I have not the body of the report. I have only my letter transmitting my report. I understand it is now at the Government Printing Office and has not been received back.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, it is understood that Mr. Newton will supply those figures, and we will charge him as a committee of one with the duty of putting them in the record.

Doctor KINDRED. General Beach is understood as recommending this project in every way.

General BEACH. In every possible way, as an absolute necessity for promoting that island development.

The CHAIRMAN. General, take the next one in order of importance. As I understand it, you are taking along now what you have marked as being in the first class of importance?

General BEACH. Yes, sir.

DEEP RIVER, WASH.

General BEACH. The next one which I would like to take up is Deep River, Wankiakum County, Wash. This is a very small stream entering the Columbia River about 20 miles from the ocean, on the north side of the river. It serves the locality which is engaged in logging and other lines of business, but has no other means of communication with the outside world than by water. It has a boat making two trips a day to Astoria.

The depth at the entrance is such, that they can not use a boat drawing more than about 6 feet, which is not safe in stormy weather. They desire the entrance deepened to 8 feet at mean low water. The cost is only $10,200, and considering the fact that that community consists of about 3,000 people and their commerce amounts to 188,000 tons, and that they have no other means of getting in or out, and the very small size of the appropriation, it seems to me advisable to do the work.

Mr. MANSFIELD. I noticed they carried 17,000 passengers.
General BEACH. Yes, sir.

Mr. MCDUFFIE. The industry is exclusively lumber, is it not?
General BEACH. Almost entirely.

PUYALLUP RIVER, WASH.

General BEACH. The next one is the Puyallup River. It flows into Puget Sound at Tacoma, Wash. What we are asking for in this case is an appropriation of $5,000 to make an examination, so as to determine what methods are necessary, if any are practical, to prevent the floods in this stream. The river is subject to sudden and rapid freshets, which come down and practically drown out the harbor at Tacoma, and it is believed that some method can be adopted which will prevent that interference with the commerce, but just what the best way is and what the most economical method to be adopted may be we can not decide without a survey, and it involves an expenditure of only $5,000, and we thought it would be money well spent in preventing interference with commerce.

The CHAIRMAN. You are doing this not only for the protection of Tacoma Harbor, but

General BEACH (interposing). To prevent interference with commerce by overflow at Tacoma.

The CHAIRMAN. It is for improvement of the navigation at Tacoma and for the improvement of navigation on the stream?

General BEACH. Not very much navigation on the stream except in the very lowest portion of the stream where it flows through the docks at Tacoma. This is a case of interference with commerce and navigation.

The CHAIRMAN. I think we had better skip that and take the larger projects.

24.

NORFOLK HARBOR, VA.

General BEACH. That report was submitted under date of March

The harbor of Norfolk is one of the most important harbors in the country, and the business has outgrown the ability. What is desired is increased depth in some of the channels.

The southern and eastern branches of the Elizabeth River are shown here [indicating on map], this being the lower end of Norfolk Harbor. This is the eastern branch and this is the southern branch of the Elizabeth River.

This part of the harbor of Norfolk has a channel 40 feet deep and 750 feet wide [indicating on map]. The 40-foot channel extends up the southern branch with a general width of 750 feet to the Belt Line bridge, about 13 miles, which is at this point [indicating on map].

Above this, there is a channel project of a depth of 25 feet, and a width of 300 feet to a point about 1,000 feet above the Virginian Railroad bridge. The distance between these two bridges is about a mile and a half. Then, it has a channel project 22 feet deep with a width of 200 feet to the Norfolk & Western Railroad bridge, which is a further distance of 2 miles.

Above the latter bridge, the river forms a part of the intracoastal waterway from Norfolk to Beaufort with a channel project of a depth of 12 feet up above, or south in this case.

Local interests desire a channel in the southern branch 30 feet deep between the Belt Line and the Virginian Railroad bridges, and 28 feet deep between the latter and the Norfolk & Western Railroad bridge, together with a straightening of the channel lines.

You can see that this portion of the channel [indicating] is very crooked, there being a very bad turn at this point [indicating].

In 1922 the commerce of the southern branch amounted to about 800,000 tons, 543,000 tons pertaining to the section we are now considering between the belt line bridge and the Norfolk & Western Railroad bridge.

During the same period the intracoastal waterway carried 514,000 tons, some of which belong to the terminals on this portion of the river. The amounts can not be exactly separated, however.

The district engineer reports that two large oil plants, which receive oil by water, and have pumping facilities, are located between the two upper bridges in this section [indicating]. It is claimed that increased costs to the oil consumers results from delay and the rehandling caused by inadequate depth.

Eleven fertilizer plants are located on the southern branch, four being below the Virginian Railroad bridge and seven above that bridge. Most of their raw materials are received on ocean steamers, for which the present depth in the upper section is inadequate. The district engineer considers a straightening of the channel advisable and recommends a channel 30 feet deep and 450 feet wide between the two lower bridges, and a channel 25 feet deep and 200 feet wide in this section [indicating on map] at an estimated cost of $449,000.

The division engineer considers a width of 375 feet sufficient for the 30-foot channel, but otherwise concurs with the district engineer