The House of Assembly will, I doubt not, entertain and approve of the object, Reasons. and recommend an appropriation for the promotion of it; but it will recommend this appropriation to be made from the Clergy Reserve Lands, and the proceeds of the sale of them. To such a proposition the Legislative Council will not agree, for reasons which I need not here repeat. That the House of Assembly will adopt this course, I am persuaded,

First. From its proceedings in very similar cases. I will point out the particular cases to which I refer, should Your Lordship desire it, on being permitted to turn to the Journals of the Upper Canada House of Assembly in the Colonial Office.

Second. As it would be a most effectual means of arraying a stronger and more general popular feeling against the Episcopal Clergy Corporation and the Legislative Council.

Thirdly.-As it would be calculated to arouse into active exercise the preponderating influence of the Methodist denomination, and the friends of popular Education on the side of popular party in the Assembly, and against their opponents. The popular party in the House of Assembly are resolved to make every occurrence and interest subservient to the practical recognition of the long contested claims to the Clergy Reserve Lands to the purposes of General Education; and of their course in the present supposed instance, I have not the least doubt. How far it may be desirable fo contribute in this manner to the successful maintenance of these long contested claims, I need not here say; but one effect must be to retard, if not altogether prevent, at least for several years, any legislative assistance being obtained for this Institution.

Another consideration I would submit to Your Lordship is, that, in referring the case to the Colonial Assembly, no present relief will be afforded to the enterprising but embarrassed Trustees. The persons who are responsible for the debt owing on the buildings of the establishment have individually contributed very largely; no exertions have been spared to solicit individual liberality in the Province; one only hope for the aid yet required is from this country,

Fourthly. In the fourth place, I beg to remind Your Lordship of the earnest desire on the part of the friends of the Institution that it may be chartered and endowed by the same authority with King's and Upper Canada Colleges. Against the endowments of these Colleges no objection has ever been made by any party in the Province; only serious exception has been taken to the exclusive character of King's College Charter.

I will only add further, (though it may seem merely political,) that a direct Final appeal. encouragement, on the part of His Majesty's Government, to so unprecendented and generous an effort to promote popular Education in Upper Canada, will secure to itself the, by no means inconsiderable, influence which, in the reference intimated and supposed, will be transferred to the democratic branch of the Colonial Legislature; an event. I think, by no means desirable, considering the comparative powerlessness of His Majesty's Government in Upper Canada, in respect to means of popular influence, to what it possesses in this country.

I, therefore, mo-t respectfully and earnestly entreat Your Lordship to take the whole matter into your serious and most gracious consideration and to afford such patronage and aid as may comport with Your Lordship's sense of duty, and a kind regard to the best interests of Education, amongst the mass of the Canadian population.

EGERTON RYERSON.

Not having received any reply to his letter of the 12th of February, and this enclosed Statement, the Reverend Egerton Ryerson again addressed a strong letter to Lord Glenelg on the 23rd of February, 1836. To this letter, the following answer was sent, under date of the 29th of that month:

I am directed by Lord Glenelg to acknowledge the receipt of your letters to His Lordship of the 12th and 23rd instant.

I have also laid before him your letter to myself of the 21st instant. In reply I am to make you the following communication.

His Lordship desires me to express his sense of the exertions which have been made by the Conference of the Methodist Church in Canada for the diffusion of Education among all classes of the inhabitants. On this subject he adopts without reservation the sentiments which you

have quoted from Lord Ripon's Despatch of the 8th November, 1832; and he directs me to assure you that the interest which His Majesty, at that time, expressed, in the diffusion of moral and religious instruction throughout his Dominions, has undergone no change. It would, therefore, be Lord Glenelg's imperative duty, no less than his anxious wish, to follow out the benevolent intentions of His Majesty, by affording every assistance in his power to those who have devoted themselves to the promotion of so important an object; and he would, accordingly, be most anxious to discover a means of relieving the Trustees of the Seminary of Learning from the pecuniary embarrassments detailed in your letter of the 23rd instant, a statement which His Lordship has perused with deep interest. But I am, at the same time, to remind you that considerable changes have taken place in the Canadas, since the date of Lord Ripon's Despatch.

The present political aspect of those Provinces, involving, as it does, the question of the control over the appropriation of the Casual and Territorial Revenue must, for the present, preclude His Majesty's Government from placing any new charge on those Funds; and, I need scarcely observe that however highly His Majesty's Government might approve of an Institution established within either of those Provinces for the instruction of youth, and however much they might appreciate the exertions of individuals towards its support, they would yet not feel justified in applying to the Imperial Parliament to assume the office of the Local Legislature, by the grant of pecuniary assistance from the revenues of the Mother Country; nor, should they consent to do so, could they hope that an application in favour of an object so purely Colonial would be successful.

Lord Glenelg has attentively weighed the arguments which you have urged against a reference of this question to the Provincial Legislature. His Lordship would be unwilling to offer a recommendation which you appear to consider as nugatory; but, after the foregoing statement, he trusts that you will perceive that there is no other quarter from which it would be possible for you to derive assistance. Nor can he permit himself to anticipate that the Legislative Bodies of Upper Canada would allow a question of such general interest to be perilled by the contests of party, or, by the ephemeral passions of the moment. He cannot, except on unquestionable proof, abandon his conviction that the Representatives of the People, and the Legislative Council will be ready to co-operate in any measure well calculated to promote the morality and to elevate the character of their less wealthy fellow-subjects.

Among the advantages which you solicit for the Institution in question, is an endowment in land, and you refer to the precedent of King's College, in support of your application.

I am desired, however, to remind you that since the date at which that endowment was conferred on King's College, an entire change has taken place in the system under which land in His Majesty's Colonial Possessions is disposed of. The practice of making free grants has been altogether discontinued; and the benefits which have resulted from the alteration at once justify its adoption and forbid any departure from it in future.

I am further to remark that the experience of other Colonies does not hold out any fair prospect of obtaining an income from such an endowment, but, rather leads to the inference that land cannot be advantageously employed by a numerous Body, not under the stimulus of immediate personal interest, or at liberty to devote their whole time and attention to its management. Under these circumstances, Lord Glenelg feels himself precluded from granting an endowment in land to the Institution in whose behalf you have applied.

DOWNING STREET,

29th February, 1836.

GEORGE GREY.

On receiving this letter from Sir George Grey, the Reverend Egerton Ryerson addressed the following letter to the Right Honourable Edward Ellice, supplementary to the one sent to him on the 6th of February, 1836. (See page 246.) In its tone, it is both pleading and pathetic-the latter, especially at its close. It was evidently written under a strong feeling of disappointment at the decision of the Colonial Secretary not to afford any pecuniary assistance to the already overburthened Trustees of the Academy at Cobourg. It is not dated, but it was written, "about midnight," after the writer had, as he said, "returned from a public meeting" in which he had taken part.

I had understood that the Canadas were so entirely out of your Department that it would be of no use to see you on the subject of my Mission to this country; but I feel that for any

success which may attend the application which I have had the honour to lay before His Majesty's Government, I shall be indebted to your kind interposition more than to that of any other individual.

I had, indeed, relinquished all intention of repeating, or pressing, my application for pecuinary aid to the Institution because I thought, from the answer of Lord Glenelg, (through Sir George Grey) [of the 29th of February, 1836,] that in the granting of the aid asked for would infringe upon a cause of policy which His Majesty's Government had, upon mature deliberations, deemed necessary to adopt in administering the Government of Upper Canada. And, I thought we had better suffer, than desire the Government, in the least degree, to embarrass itself.

This is the first favour which we have ever asked of the Government. It has always been my aim to throw as few difficulties in the way of administering the Government as possible.

For several years past I have, as Editor of the Christian Guardian, avoided agitating questions in the Provinces which I thought that the Government ought to settle, and the settlement of which I have endeavoured to promote by private letters to gentlemen connected with the Executive Government, and by strong representations to Sir John Colborne, the LieutenantGovernor, in personal interviews.

I do not ask a farthing for myself, or for the Wesleyan Methodist Ministers in Canada.notwithstanding the strong, as well and well-supported claims we have to a portion of the Clergy Reserves. But, if aid can be afforded to this Institution, without interfering with the general plans of the Government, I feel satisfied that, to no other object can a portion of the proceeds of the Crown Lands be more advantageously and usefully applied.

I really think that our application is moderate indeed, considering the grants which have been made even for the personal support of Ministers of the Church of England and Scotland, -besides other advantages,-and considering that, (even from the confessions of those not very friendly to us,) the Methodists are by far the most numerous, and have, from the earliest period in the history of the Province, been the most active and useful denomination of Christians.

I know not that I can urge any additional arguments upon the attention of Lord Glenelg. If you will emp'oy it, I place ten times the reliance upon your personal mediation and influence with His Lordship, than anything I can say, in the most laboured communications.

I know that references of a personal nature are, in general, unbecoming. But it may further satisfy you that your good-will and kind assistance will not be misplaced, or do other than extend British influence, when I state that my Father was an Officer in the British Army during the American Revolution, and is still on half-pay,-that he has held office under the Government for more than half a century, and has been successively, for many years, High Sheriff, Chairman of the Quarter Sessions, and Colonel of the First Regiment of Militia, in the London District, Upper Canada ;-that, on account of his greal zeal in defence of the Country, the United States Government offered a large reward for his apprehension during the last war (of 1812);-that all of his Sons have held offices under the Government, up to the time of our entering the Christian Ministry, in which three Brothers, besides myself, are now employed among the Wesleyan Methodists in Upper Canada. But, at the same time, I should in candour say, that, as far as is proper to our profession, we have been as anxious to promote a liberal constitutional Government, in time of peace, as we have been zealous to defend it in time of war. I have been betrayed into this ego istic statement by the remark made by Lord Glenelg today in reference to extending British influence in Upper Canada. EGERTON RYERSON.

20 GUILFORD STREET.

On the 3rd of March, 1836, the Reverend Egerton Ryerson replied to the letter of Sir George Grey's, dated the 29th of February. I only quote those parts of it which deal practically with the question, as it then presented itself to Mr. Ryerson, and which was painfully pressed upon his attention, owing to Lord Glenelg's decision in the matter. After acknowledging the courtesy and fairness. with which his requests had been considered, he proceeded :

While, (by this decision,) I find myself, as well as the Trustees of this Institution, placed in a situation too painful to think of, far be it from me to complain of, or attempt to persuade His Majesty's Government to depart, in a particular case, however pressing, from great principles and plans of Colonial Government, which its experience and matured deliberations have

deemed expedient to adopt and promulgate. I beg, however, to remark that the decision of His Majesty's Government, in respect to the Casual and Territorial revenues of Upper Canada was not knowa when I left that Province; nor was I aware of the change in the Land Granting Department, mentioned in your letter, at least so far as to prevent the endowment by the Crown of any public Institution deserving of its patronage and encouragement.

When the Buildings of this Institution were sufficiently advanced to justify, in the opinion of its promoters, an application for a Charter, etc., it became a question of deliberation as to whom and how application should be made. Sir John Colborne was consulted on the subject, I think, in February, or March, 1835. The conclusion was that, as the Lands and Casual and Territorial Revenues were at the disposal of His Majesty's Government—as in the King's College case, encouragement had been held out in favour of this Institution by two of His Majesty's Ministers in 1835-and as the consideration of the question would not be affected here by the collisions of local party feeling-it was most advisable to address His Majesty on the subject. Accordingly, the Conference of the Wesleyan Methodist Church, at its Annual Meeting in the following June, adopted a Memorial to the King, praying for a Charter, a grant and endowment. Obtaining no intelligence of the reception of this Memorial, the Trustees being likely to become embarrassed, I was requested, and I consented, at great personal inconvenience, to proceed to this country with a view of drawing the attention of His Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for the Colonies to this application, and endeavour by aid derived from Government, and from individual liberality, to remove the impediments to the immediate and efficient operations of the Institution. Such are the circumstances, under which we have been induced to lay this matter at the foot of the Throne (Note. As to the Memorial, see page 239 of this Volume.)

Permit me also to observe that it is far from my belief, much more from my intention, to intimate that a "recommendation" from His Majesty's Government to the Provincial, in this, or on any subject would be "nugatory.' On the contrary, I believe such a recommendation would have great weight, and would exert a very salutary influence in several respects. But, what I desired and intended to impress upon His Lordship's mind was :

First. That a reference of the application to the Provincial Legislature -even if successful, would not relieve the Trustees from their present embarrassments; as such an application cannot be made before the next Session of the Provincial Parliament.

Secondly. That I doubted our obtaining assistance from the Local Legislature, while the Clergy Reserves question remained unsettled. My apprehension on this point arose, not merely from the reasons I specifically stated, but from the fact that appropriations out of the Clergy Reserve Fund have been resolved on for School purposes, and these have failed in the Legislative Council. (See pages 165 and 196 of this Volume.)

Nor did I wish to be understood to intimate that this course of proceeding originated from ephemeral passions of the moment," but an opinion entertained by a large majority of the House of Assembly, and, I may add, of the people of Upper Canada, that every interest should be made subservient to the recognition of the long-asserted wishes of the people in favor of the appropriation of the Clergy Reserves and the proceeds of the sale of them to the purposes of Education. And my remarks on this point were intended also to refer principally to the sum required to relieve the Trustees, and to bring the Institution into immediate operation, and not to aid which might be afforded to it in future years.

I should consider it a dereliction of duty to those on whose behalf I act, were I not to state frankly the disappointment which must be felt at the decision come to by His Majesty's Government respecting landed endowments for literary institutions; a decision which entirely extinguishes the hope of ever obtaining any permanent aid of this kind; and, especially, as this decision affects exclusively, in Upper Canada, the Institution being established by the Methodist Conference, inasmuch as King's College University has been already endowed with three hundred and twenty-five thousand (325,000,) acres of land and one thousand pounds (£1,000.) sterling per annum, for sixteen years,—(out of the proceeds of the sales to the Canada Company), although the buildings are not yet erected; and Upper Canada College has been endowed with sixty-six thousand, (66.000,) acres of land, and an annual grant of one thousand pounds sterling, (£1,000,) although the number of students taught in it has only averaged from one hundred to one hundred and thirty; and although the experience of other Colonies may lead to an unfavourable conclusion, in respect to such endowments, yet, I think it will be found, on examination of the several reports of sales of lands in Upper Canada, that the lands placed at the disposal of the King's College Corporation have been managed as advantageously, in proportion to the quantity possessed, as the lands managed by the Crown Commissioners, or by the Agents of the Canada Company. Another circumstance which must add to the poignancy of the disappointed expect+tions of the numerous friends of this Institution is, that the Ministers of the Wesleyan Methodist Conference have never asked, nor received, nor do they now ask from His Majesty's Government one farthing for their individual support, although they have not, to say the least, been

behind the very chief of their brethren in privations, labours and usefulness in Canada. And, whatever changes may have taken place in Upper Canada, during the last four years, in other respects, I beg to assure his Lordship that no change has taken place in the views expressed by the House of Assembly respecting the Casual and Territorial Revenues for these last ten years.

The writer then proceeded to say that he made these remarks with a view: To correct erroneous impressions in some particulars, which have been received from my Statement; to explain several circumstances referred to in your letter, and to acquit myself fully in the judgment of those for whom I act. I trust his Lordship will quite approve of the liberty I have taken, and believe that I have said nothing which has not been dictated by conviction, and by a sense of duty.

I have now (from Lord Glenelg's decision) but two resources left: The one is, to try and collect, by application to individuals, the sum necessary to relieve the Trustees; the other is, to try and borrow, on the security of the premises on which the Buildings of the Institution have been erected, a sufficient sum of money to enable the Trustees to bring it into operation at the time appointed. In proceeding to accomplish both of these objects, His Lordship will perceive the importance of my being made acquainted with, and being able to state, the decision of His Majesty's Government respecting that part of our application which related to the Charter. For I can, of course, solicit individual liberality, and negotiate a loan with much greater probability of success, if I can say that the Institution is chartered by Royal Authority, than otherwise. As neither His Lordship, nor yourself, has expressed any objection whatever to recommending a Charter to be granted, I have assumed that, in this respect, the application of the Methodist Conference would be approved of. But, whatever may be my hopes, I can have no authority to state anything on this point until I shall have learned the decision of His Lordship. The application I have had the honour to present is now reduced to two points: 1. A Charter; 2. The recommendation of His Majesty's Government to the Provincial Legislature, that, at a future session, it may make an appropriation in furtherance of the objects of this Institution.

I beg therefore to be informed of the result of His Lordship's deliberation on these two points. I do earnestly hope and pray that they will be favourably entertained.

20 GUILFORD STREET,

3rd of March, 1836.

EGERTON RYERSON.

This letter was not replied to until the 18th of March, 1835, when Sir James Stephen, one of the Under Secretaries of State for the Colonial Department wrote to say that Lord Glenelg had:

Referred to the Law Officers of the Crown the question, whether any legal objection exists to the issue of such a Charter, and, until His Lordship shall receive an answer to that reference, it will not be possible for him to adopt any decision on the subject.

In regard to the second point alluded to in your letter, Lord Glenelg directs me to state that he will not fail to direct the Lieutenant-Governor of Upper Canada to recommend to the favourable attention of the Legislature of that Province the claims of the Upper Canada Academy to their protection and support.

DOWNING STREET,

18th March, 1836.

JAMES STEPHEN.

On the 21st of March, Mr. Ryerson, in a letter to Sir James Stephen, thus acknowledged the kind intention of the Colonial Minister to recommend the claims of the Upper Canada Academy to the favourable consideration of the Upper Canada Legislature. He said:

I cannot deny myself the satisfaction, on behalf of those by whom I have been sent to this country, to express my grateful acknowledgments to His Lordship for this liberal and valuable expression of approval and recommendation on the part of His Majesty's Government of an Institution and efforts to promote it, which I am satisfied will not be found, (to say the least,) inferior to any yet contemplated, in promoting the educational and moral interests of Upper Canada. I have been assured by the Law Officers of the Crown that no delay would attend the consideration of the Charter by them. I hope, therefore, soon to be favoured with His Lordship's decision on this point also, so that I may be enabled to proceed to negotiate, if possible, a loan, in order to aid in relieving the Trustees from embarrassments which are every day pressing more heavily upon them.

20 GUILFORD STREET,

EGERTON RYERSON.

21st of March, 1836.