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different. We tend to, on a farm bill or whatever, everything is, you know, in Federal terms everybody's the same, and they never are. But that's the way we put things together. Is that an area that we need to be very, very conscious of as, and when and if it is put to— gether from a Federal standpoint, that we do allow the flexibility for those differences from airport to airport, and situation to situation? Mr. Gardella. Mr. GARDELLA. Well, being with the airlines and understanding their problems, and somewhat dealing with every airport operator, yes it is a problem to some degree. But the only thing that really has to be addressed either by the FAA or ATA is communication. If you had communication, you wouldn't have the problems, and the Catch-22 situations that you have today. Believe me, when I tell you, when I served as the vice president of PSA, we were known when we started out—and we’ve been hijacked 12 times—the communication was so small. I had to gather it from other sources. Intelligence gathering has been discussed by Dick Lally, and by Ray Salazar on numerous, numerous occasions. Now, I don't know what's happened in the last year, but I could talk to you for another two hours on it. But to answer your question, the problem is not that great to address in our domestic system. All you need to do is communicate and have an accountability. For instance, and I’ve been deposed for nine hours straight over the PSA crash with U.S. Air, and that’s an unpreventable act. I don't care what you did, in any circumstances. But there is no accountability on ID cards. You can go to any air carrier today, and you go to that airport and you can pull out the air carriers' ID card, and I was issuing ID cards like it was going out of style, and you lost it, no biggie. But if you would have an accountability and communication, you would not be faced with a lot of these hearings and problems. They can be addressed. Along later comes the technology. And the only catalyst that we had in the industry was through Dick Lally and the Association. If he didn't tell us to keep it straight, we'd have nothing. Those things have got to change, because society is demanding more of an accountability from you gentlemen, from consultants, in the security posture as it is seen today. And in the private sector, I would be in the homeless if I had to operate the way they do. You can't do it, because they don't tell you anything. Mr. LIGHTFOOT. I’m getting two messages, as far as communication is concerned, are you talking within an airline company, and between companies and between the Government, or is it the whole gamut, or— Mr. GARDELLA. Between the Government, between the Government. Mr. LIGHTFoot. And the companies? Mr. GARDELLA. And the companies. And I don't know how it stands in the last year, you'd have to address that question to Dick Lally. But I do know, when I get the call when something goes wrong, like from an attorney, and it all comes back down to communications at a specific airport, with a specific airline. And right now, to this day, and I have no qualms about saying it, because I

consider Salazar and Belger my friends. They don't communicate. And I, for six months, have sent letters and I've sent telegrams. Mr. LIGHTFOOt. I don't know how else to put this, but is the breakdown on the communication, is it because of bureaucracy? Is that where it is? Mr. GARDELLA. From my perception, being on the outside now, looking in, I still think that it is. However, you'd have to talk to Homer Boynton. He runs a big airline and a good airline. You'd have to talk to United, Bob Bauter, and you'd have to talk to Dick Lally. But some of the people are so afraid to tell what the truth is, that they're worried where the next paycheck comes from. I'm not in that category any more. And I could say what I believe to be letting truth prevail. And there are constraints what a person can really say. But I do think, without articulating on that part, you've got some of the greatest minds today of all time in airline security, and airport management. And you don't use it to the extent that it can be used, in my opinion. And in a closed session if Homer would sit here and let his hair down, whatever he's got left, Bob Bauter, who doesn't have any, Dick Lally, and we sit in this committee and wring it out with Monte Belger and Ray Salazar, you're going to get productivity. But everybody's afraid to tell you what the real truth is. And I could expound on other areas, but as long as they're present, they're in the driver's seat. I'm coming in like the has


But I do feel by being here, that if they were allowed to communicate better, you will have a better security system. And I think many people can attest to it, because they sat here today, waiting all this time to hear what the hell I'm going to say. And when they knew that Oberstar was sending for me, I guess the moccasin teletype was all over Washington. What the hell is Gardella going to Say. It's got to be productive. And the time has come one more time— you got me started—one more time, Mr. Lightfoot, or Congressman, they've got to hang a big sign at the FAA, proactive instead of reactive. Last year the big comment was the theft was perceived from within, because some disgruntled employee did something. What about the highway patrolman in California that did something? That perception was a wrong perception, in my opinion. We still have the terrorists.

If you were in San Diego two weeks ago, and see what everybody went through with that Captain's wife with that bomb, we had almost a national chaos, knowing that there was terrorists in San Diego. My phone must have rung off the hook 38 times, what should we do. And I said, how in the hell do I know, get the police. Law enforcement should be sitting here.

And like I say, sitting right behind me is your greatest minds, use them.

Mr. LIGHTFOOT. I appreciate that.

You can answer in an open session that wouldn't jeopardize anybody, what is the truth.

Mr. GARDELLA. What is the truth?


Mr. GARDELLA. For 21 years we've had the problem of airline se– curity. You've got 160 certified carriers, what I alluded to a little before, and it's about time that the FAA comes up with a regulation saying that every air carrier have a professional security officer. You've got more air carriers that don’t belong to ATA that are flying passengers, and haven't got any input at all. You need that right now. You need people that can give you answers and create that safe environment. You've got people now, even with the ATA, if you open up their directory, that are in charge of fuel and security. Every chief executive officer should be held accountable, because security can no longer be at the bottom rung of the ladder. It better be on the top. Now, my two young twin granddaughters have been chosen as Olympic development people, and if they're going to be flying around and we haven't done nothing, and they're going to be going to Europe, maybe Barcelona if they prove themselves, I'd be scared to put them on an airline the way we operate today. Every bag should be examined by x-ray. It should be videoed, and then you get all these other things—and I’m becoming repetitious. Let them start speaking. They're running the industry today. From the outside, and I could speak openly, I could see many programs. The thing you do, and I always say this because I have 700 employees in my company that I just sold, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. And that's what's wrong today. You need a training academy. And I could start one in two weeks, and everyone that supports the air carrier, and it's about time the airlines started seeing that they've got to do a better job. You've got people today that can't even speak English, much less be a citizen. And I got in all kinds of trouble when I turned down artistic people in Phoenix, when I was with the airline, saying they can't do the job. Man, I was tackled right away by some legal definitions that we’re going to sue you. But I'm saying this for the fourth time, Congressman Lightfoot, you've got Ray Salazar, you've got Monte Belger, they're good men. Make them work. And make them answer and be accountable. They want to be, but maybe politics are involved where they can’t be. You've got Dick Lally, you've got all these other guys, you could have the best system in the entire world, but you're not using them right in my opinion. Mr. LIGHTFOOT. I appreciate your comments and your candidneSS-Mr. GARDELLA. I get excited. Mr. LIGHTFoot. Never noticed it from here. [Laughter.] Mr. GARDELLA. Thank you. Mr. LIGHTFOOT. Thank you very much for being with us and sticking with us this late in the afternoon. Mr. GARDELLA. I'll stay another week if you want. Mr. LIGHTFOOT. Talking about the English, I understand that the Smithsonion has a bounty out for an English-speaking cab driver here. If we find one, we're supposed to kill him and have him stuffed, they're going to mount him over there. If that pertains to what you're talking about, I'm not sure, but again, we do appreciate your coming very much, and when we have that closed session,

that may be a good opportunity to get some of these things ironed Out. Mr. GARDELLA. I'd come back again on a closed session. Mr. LIGHTFoot. Thank you. Mr. PAYNE. I'd like to end the hearing on that note, then, Mr. Gardella, and we appreciate very much you and Mr. Arad being here as our final panel of witnesses. This hearing has certainly been very informative for all of us and I think the record will be of great interest to all of our members who weren't able to attend all the hearings. But I want to thank you very much. I need to make an announcement that the subcommittee will not meet in Executive Session this evening, but will reschedule probably Thursday morning, and we will be in touch with the appropriate people to confirm that. Thank you all again or staying until such a late hour. This hearing is adjourned. [Whereupon, at 7:25 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned, to reconvene at the call of the chair.]

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