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The gentleman from Virginia.

Mr. PAYNE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just had a couple of questions, too, if I may. And first I also wanted to thank you all for being here for such a long time and for staying to such a late hour. This is very helpful to us.

Regarding the SAIC proposal and specifically you mentioned that you have the ability to produce in these some quantity, 50 to 100, the TNA technology. We heard earlier today from Congressman McCurdy, who was speaking about that, that the initial copies would be roughly $750,000. Would these higher quantities cost correspondingly less as a result of the mass manufacture?

Mr. BOZORGMANESH. Well, the $750,000 was the number associated with the production of 50 to 100. We believe we can bring the cost down to close to $500,000 probably the year after, as we go into a larger production. But since this will be really the first mass production of these units, that's the cost, which is about $250,000 less than the six units that we are building for FAA per unit roughly. So we've already reduced the cost by about $250,000.

Mr. PAYNE. And future production, even at that quantity, likely will be less expensive because of what you'll learn, or you'll amortize your costs?

Mr. BOZORGMANESH. We amortize-actually it's not really the cost of research or the facility that we are amortizing. There is a great deal of equipment and sophisticated electronics that we have to purchase. And we are hoping as we build those ourselves, we reduce the cost, rather than buying it from others.

Mr. PAYNE. Mr. Paderson, the Model 85 that we're looking at here, does that detect plastic explosives?

Mr. PADERSON. It detects a wide variety of explosives. I'd prefer not to go into the exact detection capabilities in an open session. It does detect more than a lot of people have said it could detect.

Mr. PAYNE. It is competitive with the machines that Dr. Fine's company produces?

Mr. PADERSON. I'm sorry?

Mr. PAYNE. Is that competitive with the vapor technology that Dr. Fine was speaking of earlier?

Mr. PADERSON. As far as we know we can detect with similar performance to what Dr. Fine's technology can do. We've not been privy to all the test results on Dr. Fine's though, and we can do it though in six seconds.

Mr. PAYNE. And the cost of that machine?

Mr. PADERSON. The cost of that machine is $27,000.

Mr. PAYNE. Thank you, I have no other questions.

Mr. PADERSON. Thank you.

Mr. OBERSTAR. Thank the gentleman.

I would like to ask the panel very briefly, do you feel that the FAA has spent enough, not enough, in the last five years or so on research and development to produce the technologies that we have today?

Mr. JENKINS. Mr. Chairman, can I answer that one, first? I am Research and Development Director at Ion Track, and this week I am laying off one of my research staff, because we've run out of funds on the projects we're working on on research.

Mr. BOZORGMANESH. The experience of SAIC has been on the development of TNAs that FAA has sponsored an adequate level to get the equipment to the point where it is now, and I think now we are calling it a product. There is a portable unit that we want to develop for actually moving it for many cases where there are actual threat called once the plane is in the air, you have to actually drive the system to the airplane and take the baggage in and sanitize it and put it back on the plane. And for that sort of R&D effort, and others which really leads into a more rapid and smaller type TNA, we've requested more R&D funding, and the response has been that they are very limited at the present.

Mr. OBERSTAR. Dr. Fine.

Mr. FINE. My response to that, up to the present, about the end of last year, there was adequate research funds. We're in a holding period right now. We have just gone under contract again this week on the luggage system. On the walk-in, there has been no activity at Thermedics, whatsoever since October. It is going to take at least 15 months to 36 months to complete that project. We haven't been able to start on that activity. I'm not sure if it's a lack of funds or a lack of, I think it's the bureaucracy in getting one phase of a contract started, as with any Federal agency starting on the next phase is a lot of red tape that you have to go through and it takes a long time to go those kind of problems. Mr. OBERSTAR. Thank you.

I just have the feeling that if the FAA had been investing more money earlier, and therefore over a longer period of time, we would have brought such technologies on stream sooner. But we are where we are, and now the question is, will we proceed, the Government, industry, and all those who are affected, and responsible in the security area, spend the money to buy these units so that you can start up production and produce the available technology, the state-of-the-art technology and put it in place as soon as possible. You obviously have to have some expectation of a fairly sizeable production run to justify tooling up, producing the units, delivering them to the Government.

Yes, Dr. Fine.

Mr. FINE. Could I respond to Mr. Payne's last question_to_the person from Ion Track. It is our understanding that when FAA started the development of the walk-in portal, other equipment had been evaluated by the FAA, by the FBI. It is because of problems with that equipment at that time that they embarked on R&D programs. The FAA does not normally embark on R&D programs if there is existing commercial equipment. So I take exception to the answer that was given there.

Mr. OBERSTAR. Thank you very much.

Mr. PADERSON. Mr. Chairman, there's just one thing, if I could respond to your earlier question about tooling up. There is an existing market for explosive detectors, as I've already talked about, with the U.S. military and the nuclear power industries. And in the case of ITI, the equipment is available from stock. It's not a question of tooling up. It's just a question of when do you need the equipment.

Mr. OBERSTAR. Well, it seems to me that at a minimum, we needed it last December.

Mr. SEWARD. We can give it to you tomorrow.

Mr. OBERSTAR. I thank you very much for your testimony. It's been most helpful, most enlightening, and we shall proceed further along the lines we've already discussed, of moving the huge apparatus of Government forward to put the technology in place necessary to protect lives.

Mr. PADERSON. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, members. [The prepared statements of Mr. Bozorgmanesh, Mr. Fine and Mr. Paderson follow:]

Science Applications International Corporation

STATEMENT

OF

DR. HADI BOZORGMANESH
CORPORATE VICE PRESIDENT

SCIENCE APPLICATIONS INTERNATIONAL
CORPORATION (SAIC)

CONCERNING

THE

THERMAL NEUTRON ACTIVATION (TNA)
EXPLOSIVE DETECTION SYSTEM (EDS)

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS AND TRANSPORTATION
SUBCOMMITTEE ON AVIATION

THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

MARCH 21, 1989

SAIC

Mr. Chairman and members of the Subcommittee. My name is Hadi Bozorgmanesh and I am a Corporate Vice President of Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC), an employee owned company based in California. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before the Subcommittee today to present to you SAIC's effort in research, development and demonstration of the Thermal Neutron Activation (TNA) Explosive Detection System (EDS) and express our determination and capability to manufacture large quantities of TNA units during the next 18

months.

First about SAIC and its employees. Employee owned and operated, SAIC is a diversified high-technology company focusing primarily in the areas of national security, energy, environment and health, and high technology products. Founded in 1969 by a small group of research scientists, SAIC has grown into an organization of more than 10,000 people with revenues in excess of $850 million. SAIC is truly a unique company -- probably the only company of its size that is so thoroughly owned and controlled by the employees and so thoroughly dedicated to the national interest.

Mr. Chairman, for the past three and a half years SAIC has been the Federal Aviation Administration's prime contractor to develop a practical way to detect explosives in airline luggage and cargo. In winning competitively the opportunity to work with the FAA to develop the TNA explosive detector, SAIC committed to an aggressive but orderly program of research, development and demonstration culminating in highly successful FAA-run tests of two prototypes at the Los Angeles and San Francisco airports from June 1987 to March 1988.

Simply stated, thermal neutron analysis involves the process of probing, via neutrons, the characteristic elements of explosives, such as nitrogen, and detection and analysis of signature emission of these elements. The video will further describe the TNA process.

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