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quate opportunity to express their views at a public hearing before a decision is reached on these important matters by the Secretary.

The American Merchant Marine Institute appreciates the opportunity of appearing here and presenting our views on S. 3019. The favorable consideration and adoption of our proposed amendments will be very helpful from the standpoint of those of our member companies operating or who plan to operate oceangoing vessels into the Great Lakes.

Senator LAUSCHE. There is a live quorum call, and I have to go downstairs. We will recess until this afternoon.

(Thereupon, at 11:53 a.m., the subcommittee was recessed, to reconvene at 4 p.m. this day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

Senator LAUSCHE. Is there anyone who would like to put his testimony in the record without reading it?

Mr. Hinslea?

STATEMENT OF LEE C. HINSLEA, McCREARY, HINSLEA & RAY,

CLEVELAND, OHIO; FOR CHICAGO OVERSEAS SHIPPING ASSOCIATION

Mr. HINSLEA. I would like to submit my statement. There is only one point I want to make.

In the State Department statement of this morning, on page 5, they have given you this statement:

Enrolled vessel navigating U.S. waters of the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence River must have a complement of officers holding Coast Guard pilot licenses for those waters.

I want to call the committee's attention to this: That we have a number of tugs up in the Great Lakes—for instance, the Great Lakes Towing Co. have over 50 tugs. All but seven or eight of them are diesel tugs. Under the Coast Guard regulations, or any law, they are not required to have licensed pilots aboard.

The Great Lakes Dredge & Dock have diesel tugs, and they are not required.

Mr. BOURBON. Mr. Hinslea, I might tell you that the Coast Guard has already recognized that and have asked permission to have their testimony not all inclusive, to say many ships, not all of them.

Mr. HÎNSLEA. If we can have some understanding in the future, no one can claim these tugs are required under the law to have licensed officers, then that would answer my problem.

Senator LAUSCHE. Is that the general understanding ?
Mr. BOURBON. That will be taken care of.

Senator LAUSCHE. Mr. Hinslea, your testimony will be included in the record as if it had been fully read.

(The statement follows:)

STATEMENT OF LEE C. HINSLEA, COUNSEL FOR CHICAGO OVERSEAS SHIPPING Asso

CIATION, CHICAGO, ILL., IN SUPPORT OF S. 3019 My name is Lee C. Hinslea. I am an attorney at law, specializing in the practice of admiralty and maritime law, with offices at 860 Union Cominerce Building, Cleveland, Ohio.

Since 1958 when the first hearing on a bill for the requirement of pilots on certain vessels in certain U.S. waters was had, I have been acting as counsel for the Chicago Overseas Shipping Association. This statement together with any remarks that I might make today will be as spokesman for this association. This association is comprised of 25 member lines of foreign and American vessels trading on the Great Lakes, and particularly into the port of Chicago. There are two American-flag lines trading from overseas to the Great Lakes who are members, but, as they also belong to the American Merchant Marine Council, that association will probably speak for them. Therefore, this statement does not necessarily include the American lines.

After a study of S. 3019, we feel it is a vast improvement over H.R. 57 and H.R. 7515, which have been considered by the Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries, House of Representatives, and S. 2096, which was identical to these House bills but which your committee refused to adopt and recommend for passage by the Senate.

We would also like to compliment the chairman of this committee and the committee members for the progressive step made following the hearings on S. 2096 in June 1958 whereby it was recommended that the administration officials of the United States work with the duly authorized representatives of the Canadian Government to secure a bill that was acceptable to both countries. This was a key and most thoughtful suggestion. The bill now before you is the result of many meetings between the two Governments, and we have been advised that it is an administration bill.

At previous hearings both in the House and before your committee, our association was of an opinion that the bill had various weaknesses from a safety standpoint and should be adequately reinforced by giving a body power to make qualifications sufficiently rigid to obtain competent and experienced pilots. You will remember that we pointed out that under the previous pilot bills a young man just obtaining his first pilot's license or an older man who had never risen above a second or third mate would be deemed equally qualified and as competent as a man who had gained a master's license. This glaring weakness has been remedied to our satisfaction with the requirement that a person seeking a job as a pilot must have an unlimited master's license. Under the Coast Guard regulations, no one is eligible to take the examination for a master's license until he has had a specified tinie in acting as mate and first-class pilot of Great Lakes vessels.

Again, while it has been suggested at previous times that a joint commission consisting of Canadian and American representatives be had, apparently the Government representatives of both countries found that such an idea was impractical and unworkable, so by substitution they have written into S. 3019 a requirement which we think will carry out the same function as a joint commission, namely, that the Secretary of Commerce with an advisory committee be given powers that probably a joint pilotage commission would have had.

Another objection we had to the other bill was the failure to give any assurance to our American Great Lakes licensed officers that an opportunity would be afforded them to qualify as pilots and be a part of any pilots association. S. 3019 specifically provides that our Government representatives shall work with Canada to secure an equitable division of pilotage work. This could not have been done under the old bill.

It must be remembered that ships coming into the seaway first enter at a Canadian port and pilots are put aboard at that time for their trip into the seaway. Pilots are again put on at the Welland Canal, also Canadian territory. To give American pilots work under the old bill or under the conditions that existed last summer without a bill, it would have been or was necessary for them to enter Canada at the Canadian border in the vicinity of the Welland Canal and board the ship that they were to pilot at the easterly end of the Welland Canal. The Canadian Immigration Department has refused to let any American pilots enter the country, giving the reason, as we have been told, that they were taking work away from Canadian workmen. To the best of our knowledge, last summer only three or four pilots were able to work their way into Canada to obtain pilotage work.

In an attempt to overcome this obstruction, the foreign shipowners arranged for American pilots to have all of the pilotage work in the St. Mary's River and Duluth Harbor. They were able to board the ship at Detour, Mich., and leave the ship at Whitefish Bay in American waters. This gave some of our American pilots work, but whether or not it was an equitable division is difficult to say. Again, we say that this bill (S. 3019) seems to rectify these inequities.

As an analysis of a draft of the proposed bill has been submitted to you by the Department of State, we do not believe that we should take further time by making an analysis of each section and have only attempted to point out those corrections which we believe have answered some of our own objections.

Having plugged some of the loopholes that were in the former proposed bill and which, in our opinion, increases the safety, we now come to a question that every businessman, legislator, and taxpayer must consider, namely, the economic feature. The cost of the seaway is to be paid by tolls. Tolls can be obtained only from the ships that come into the seaway. Whether or not sufficient ships will come into the seaway and pay the tolls, thereby paying off the debt that all the taxpayers of the United States have taken on, depends upon the cost of ship operation and the profits obtained by the ships making the voyage.

No successful or intelligent businessman is going to operate ships in the seaway and on the Great Lakes or anywhere else unless there is some profit. The cost of pilotage is a part of the operation costs of the ship. This bill now provides for the fixing of pilots' fees in U.S. waters by the Secretary of Commerce but only after giving all interested parties an opportunity to be heard. This is no different than the procedure that State pilotage authorities follow, which has existed since before 1776. We understand the same procedure is in effect in Canada. A further benefit will be had from this procedure in that the Secretary of Commerce will work with the proper authorities of Canada in an attempt to keep the pilotage fees in both countries on a comparable basis. It needs no profound thinking and argument to arrive at the conclusion that if the pilots in one country are paid fees considerably higher than the pilots in the other country, the shipowner will attempt to secure the pilots receiving the lesser fee. Should objection be made to this feature of the bill, we can only point out that the fixing of fees by governmental authority is not new or novel and has been successful in every State in the United States that has pilotage requirements. It will also eliminate an inevitable chaotic condition if a pilot or group of pilots must contract with individual shipowners.

In conclusion, our association wishes to endorse this bill which has been so ably put together by the various governmental agencies, and respectfully asks that this committee recommend its passage and enactment into law.

We wish to thank the chairman of this committee and all its members for giving us an opportunity to be heard, which required them to take time out from overwhelming tasks and duties.

STATEMENT OF THEODORE W. SVENSSON, PRESIDENT, LAKE

SUPERIOR PILOTS' ASSOCIATION, INC. Mr. SVENSSON. I am Theodore W. Svensson, president of the Lake Superior Pilots' Association, Inc., in Duluth, Minn. We are an association of pilots which operated last year in Lake Superior and the St. Marys River and in the harbor of Duluth-Superior.

I have a prepared statement. We are in support of this bill, and I would like to enter the testimony into the record.

Senator LAUSCHE. That will be done. (The statement follows:)

STATEMENT OF THEODORE W. SVENSSON, PRESIDENT OF LAKE SUPERIOR PILOTS'

ASSOCIATION, INC. As I understand it, the bill under consideration would provide that radio equipped vessels staffed by officers who meet certain minimum standards to the satisfaction of United States or Canadian officials, will be permitted to enter the Great Lakes without carrying a pilot aboard. When these vessels enter rivers, locks or other recognized areas of difficult navigation, they will be required to take aboard a registered pilot skilled in the problems of the area which it serves.

We are in support of this measure.

No serious need for local piloting service existed on Lake Superior prior to 1959, but with the opening of the seaway, demand became obvious. Accordingly this association was created early last summer to furnish salt water vessels with pilots of proven experience backed by efficient organization. This is a Minnesota corporation in form, but stockholding is limited to those who participate in its work. It therefore functions as a pool or cooperative organization for the pilots.

Our experience with Lake Superior shipping during the first year of seaway traffic indicates the need of pilots to take the ships through the St. Marys River and locks at Sault Ste. Marie, and the need of pilots to bring salt water vessels into difficult harbors. At the same time we are not aware of any difficulties experienced by salt water vessels in traversing the open waters of Lake Superior from Whitefish Bay to their point of destination and return.

While there was some damage done to ships and some damage done by ships in Lake Superior and surrounding harbors, there are two important things to note about these incidents: First, all of them took place in rivers or harbors and not on open waters; and second, not one of these incidents took place when a pilot of Lake Superior Pilots' Association was aboard the vessel.

In certain restricted waters a pilot is obviously required. In these areas the individual who serves in that capacity must possess not only general skill and training, but also detailed and up-to-the-minute information on the area which he serves. This is not a job for an individual, regardless of his training, who gets on at Montreal and rides through to Duluth.

Probably the best case in point is the situation which existed in the St. Marys River toward the close of navigation last year. Because of dredging operations, the regular downbound channel was closed to navigation. Dredges were operating in and near the channel and the only safe procedure was to put aboard an individual who had kept in touch hour by hour with changing conditions.

In recognition of the service rendered by this association, we received a letter dated December 3, 1959, from E. J. Bodenlos, commander of the U.S. Coast Guard at Sault Ste. Marie. The letter reads as follows:

CAPTAIN OF THE PORT,

U.S. COAST GUARD,

Sault Ste. Marie, Mich., December 3, 1959. Mr. THEODORE W. SVENSSON, President, Lake Superior Pilots' Association, Duluth, Minn.

DEAR MR. SVENSSON: The foreign ship transit of the St. Marys River have been completed for 1959, and I want to take this opportunity to compliment you for the wonderful services of your St. Marys River pilots, Captain Carlson, Captain Everson, Captain Howell, Captain Bishop, and Captain Hewer.

These foreign ships which transit the river were in many cases cranky and difficult to handle. In addition the dredging restrictions imposed on the channels together with the closing of the downbound channel made navigation of these ships extremely exacting.

Despite these disadvantages, the pilots brought these foreign vessels through with no major difficulty whatsoever.

We also appreciate the excellent relations with and cooperation we received from Mr. Robert Wiley of the Soo Marine Bureau. Because of their efforts and cooperation, the administration of the control of the St. Marys River was made much easier.

Let me therefore express my appreciation to all the St. Marys River pilots and commend them for a job well done. Sincerely,

E. J. BODENLOS, Commander, USOG. In the crowded channels of Sault Ste. Marie and the ports of the United States and Canada bordering Lake Superior, a mismanaged and unpiloted ship could block a channel, smash a dock or an elevator, or otherwise do considerable harm to commerce. But the solution of this problem is not to burden the ship with the added expense of a pilot who stays aboard for the entire duration of the voyage and who is unfamiliar with the peculiar problems of the localities through which he must guide the ship.

Our organization is staffed by individuals each of whom holds a master's license. All pilots are required to pass the scrutiny of an examining board before they are permitted to handle a ship. Each pilot is familiar with the problems of the area where he works.

Having met the challenges of the first year of navigation, we are now getting ready for another season. Additional pilots are being screened and will be

tested for a position on our roster; pilot-boat service is being reorganized, and steps are being taken to speed our communications and increase our efficiency.

We believe that use of organizations such as ours is the economic and sensible approach to pilotage of salt-water vessels on the Great Lakes.

STATEMENT OF ROBERT W. CARY, PRESIDENT OF TRANS-WORLD

SHIPPING SERVICE, INC., AND VICE PRESIDENT OF TOLEDO MARINE TERMINALS, INC., BOTH OF TOLEDO, OHIO

Mr. Cary. I am Robert W. Cary from Toledo. I have submitted a statement here and I would like to have that included in the record.

Senator LAUSCHE. That will be done. (The statement follows:)

STATEMENT OF ROBERT W. CARY

My name is Robert W. Cary. I am president of Trans-World Shipping Service, Inc., vice president of Toledo Marine Terminals, Inc., both of Toledo, Ohio, and vice president of the Council of Lake Erie Ports, an organization composed of the principal ports on Lake Erie from Detroit to Buffalo, both inclusive. Previously I had more than 36 years' active service in the U.S. Navy, retiring with the rank of rear admiral.

I am here representing the above-named organizations as well as the ToledoLucas County Port Authority and the Toledo Area Chamber of Commerce. We appreciate this opportunity to briefly present our views in support of 8. 3019.

In two previous instances in hearings on bills concerning pilotage in U.S. waters of the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence River, we have appeared in opposition to the bills as introduced into the Congress, not because we were unsympathetic to the bills' sole objective, that of increasing safety of navigation in the area con rned. Our opposition was based on the absence of any provision in either bill that took cognizance of inevitable operational problems related to pilotage, or any provision of a means of coordinating with Canadian authorities the resolution of operating problems of mutual interest that now exist or others that will arise.

Without time-consuming explanation, I will conclude with the statement that we believe the present bill, S. 3019, provides for the necessary safety principle embodied in previous bills, while at the same time establishing a basic mechanism with means of implementation that can, and we hope will, resolve operational problems relating to pilotage, whether they are of mutual United StatesCanadian interest or apply solely to U.S. waters, in the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence area.

We therefore urge this committee to approve S. 3019 and to vigorously support its adoption by the Senate.

Senator LAUSCHE. Mr. Levins, did you have a statement to include in the record ?

Mr. LEVINS. I do. I would like to submit it for the record. I am K. T. Levins from Chicago, Ill.

Senator LAUSCHE. It will be included in the record. (The statement follows:)

STATEMENT OF KEVIN T. LEVINS, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT AND GENERAL

MANAGER, CALUMET HARBOR TERMINALS, INC., AND ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT, CHICAGO CALUMET STEVEDORING CO., INC., IN SUPPORT OF S. 3019.

I am Kevin T. Levins of Chicago, Ill., executive vice president and general manager of Calumet Harbor Terminals, Inc., and assistant to the president of Chicago Calumet Stevedoring Co., Inc., which firms are engaged in the business of unloading, loading, warehousing, and distribution of import and export cargoes carried by ocean vessels in the Great Lakes-oversea trades. Furthermore, all other stevedoring companies handling oversea cargoes in the port of Chicago, including North Pier Terminal Co., International Steamship Terminals, Inc., and Seaway Stevedoring Co., Inc., have authorized me to present their position with respect to this proposed legislation.

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